Mortal Mist
Welcoming Boards => Lucid Dreaming Techniques => : johnb April 21, 2013, 02:44:46 AM
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Last night I tried a form of WBTB that's different from how it's usually done. Or at least different from how I usually do it. This new variation was easy to do and actually worked. I had a fairly long (for me) LD, although it was a pretty boring one. I'd be interested in hearing if anyone else has tried anything like this.
In the past I've waited until I've woken up naturally in the middle of the night (almost always due to having to go to the bathroom). Then I'd stay awake for 10 or 15 minutes, while meditating or thinking about being lucid. I've never enjoyed this at all, because who wants to stay up for that long in the middle of the night? It's also sometimes hard to get back to sleep after staying awake so long.
Last night I decided to try something different. Specifically, I decided to:
1. Use an alarm clock to wake myself up at predetermined times instead of waking up naturally.
2. Wake up more than once during the night.
3. Not stay awake for a long time after waking up, because it's unpleasant to do so. It's counterproductive to do unpleasant things to get lucid. It could only provide a disincentive for my SC to cooperate with my plans.
Here's what I did:
Before going to bed I set my alarm clock to wake me up in 3 hours. I then took a Theanine capsule and went to sleep. When the alarm woke me up I went to the bathroom. I then stayed awake for a couple of minutes with the lights on. I set the alarm to wake me up in 2 hours and went back to sleep. When the alarm woke me up the second time, I went to the bathroom, then walked around the house for a couple of minutes turning lights on and off. I went back to sleep without setting the alarm. Sometime after this I had an LD.
The experience was way more pleasant than the other times I've tried WBTB. It had the side benefit that my bladder didn't get as uncomfortably full as it usually does while I'm sleeping. I plan to experiment further with this technique, waking up different numbers of times and after different time intervals.
One possible problem with this method is that if you sleep with another person, the alarm clock could wake them up, which they probably won't appreciate. If this issue applies to you, just get a silent vibrating alarm clock that you can strap to your wrist or put under your pillow. Search online for "vibrating alarm clock".
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Hmmmm.... strap-on vibrating alarm clock... :um:
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That's good that it worked for you.
Though that might have been a fluke. Have to try it some more. Tried it last night using an interval timer instead of an alarm clock to wake me up, but it didn't wake me up. Going to order a vibrating alarm clock.
My hope for this method is that it might be capable of altering the sleep cycle in a way that promotes more dreaming and more awareness of one's dreams. I'd like a reliable method that's not unpleasant and that could be used every night, or almost every night.
I'm not a natural lucid dreamer. Supplements work, but tolerance issues prevent me from using them very often. And some of them cause insomnia from time to time.
I don't even like to stay awake for a couple minutes, so I have never been a good WBTBer.
Yes, that could be a problem in your case. OTOH, I'm not sure you'd have to stay awake for even a couple of minutes. It might only be necessary to wake up momentarily a few times during the night. That might be enough to alter the sleep cycle in such a way that the likelihood of having LDs is significantly increased. People who are naturally good at having LDs tend to be light sleepers. This could be a way of causing oneself to become a light sleeper.
But maybe not. It's mostly speculation at this point. The only evidence I have is that it seemed to work for me once. More experimentation needs to be done. Even if it does work, one would have to figure out the best combination of variables. Some of the variables are:
1. How often one does this. Every night? Every other night? A couple of times per week?
2. How often one wakes up during the night.
3. How long one sleeps between wake-up times.
4. How long one stays awake before going back to sleep.
It might also be good to throw in random variations of these variables. Otherwise, your brain might adapt in a way that prevents you from having lighter sleep. That also might be a reason not to do it every night. There could be tolerance issues, just as with supps. Though probably not as bad as with supps.
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Hmmmm.... strap-on vibrating alarm clock... :um:
One of the first links that came up when I Googled it was "Remote control vibrating panties". :o
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Just occurred to me that a Zeo would be useful for testing this method. It could provide data showing the effect on the sleep cycle of waking up at different times during the night.
Another thought: This might be a good method to combine with supplements. There could be a synergistic effect. It might also reduce the dosage level of the supplement required to induce an LD.
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1. Go to the bathroom.
2. Walk around the house.
3. Meditate.
4. Review one's LD goals.
5. Write down whatever you were dreaming when you woke up.
6. Nothing. (Go right back to sleep.)
7. Take a supplement, such as an N patch.
8.
9.
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It just occurred to me that if one did this every night on a regular schedule, it might eventually become habitual. Your brain would expect to be woken up at certain times during the night and would therefore wake itself up, or at least enter a lighter stage of sleep.
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johnb
I like your thoughts about this. Obviously you have a lot of knowledge. The variables make sense to me. I would love to have something work more regularly than my attempts at WILDs and my 2x/week attempts at supps.
If I do get a vibrating ALARM clock that I can strap on ( :D), I am going to do some experimenting as well with this method.
Keep us up to date.:goodidea:
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I have a ZEO and might try the alarm setting, I think it can wake you up at the start of a REM cycle.
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I had a vibrating watch, but it woke Tom and not me. :shakehead:
Tom must be a light sleeper. My interval timer didn't wake me up last night. The vibrations weren't strong enough. My cell phone can be used as an alarm clock, but the vibrations seem too weak to wake me up. Just ordered a Shake-N-Wake alarm clock. Hope that works.
I wake up periodically at night naturally.
I do too. Maybe one to three times.
I try to always take the opportunity to practice WILDing. (With limited success.)
Might be good to combine WILD with this.
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I have a ZEO and might try the alarm setting, I think it can wake you up at the start of a REM cycle.
It'd be great to try that! Let us know if anything interesting happens.
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Sometimes you get lucky, even if the WILD is unsuccessful, and dream of WILDing, which is much more likely to work, of course.
Yes. Might as well try, as long as you wake up during the night.
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I would love to have something work more regularly than my attempts at WILDs and my 2x/week attempts at supps.
Yes. Would be good. This might not work regularly, if it works much at all. But I like the theory of it. Altering the sleep cycle.
If I do get a vibrating ALARM clock that I can strap on ( :D), I am going to do some experimenting as well with this method.
Keep us up to date. :goodidea:
Just ordered one myself.
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I like the look (and the price) of the Shake n Wake device.
I noticed further down on Amazon.ca a similar product...
http://www.amazon.ca/Silent-Vibrating-Alarm-Tracker-852476003005/dp/B0058DBX5U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_6/179-0890222-1583605
Would this work like a Zeo?
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I like the look (and the price) of the Shake n Wake device.
I noticed further down on Amazon.ca a similar product...
http://www.amazon.ca/Silent-Vibrating-Alarm-Tracker-852476003005/dp/B0058DBX5U/ref=pd_sim_sbs_k_6/179-0890222-1583605
Would this work like a Zeo?
I think the LARK is similar to Zeo, except it doesn't measure brain waves. It's based on motion sensing. If you don't move around much it assumes you're in a deep-sleep state. Which isn't always the case.
OTOH, I'd rather wear something on my wrist than around my head. Not sure how comfortable that Zeo headband is.
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1. 4/20/2013.
Sleep intervals between alarms (hrs:min): 3:00, 2:00
Minutes stayed awake after each alarm: ~ 2
Number of LDs recalled: 1
Number of non-LDs recalled: 0
Alarm type: Regular alarm clock.
Notes: Took Theanine capsule before going to bed.
2. 4/21/2013.
Sleep intervals between alarms (hrs:min): 1:40, 1:40, 1:40, ...
Minutes stayed awake after each alarm: ~ 2
Number of LDs recalled: 0
Number of non-LDs recalled: 0
Alarm type: Interval timer, with vibrating alarm.
Notes: No supplements. Interval timer didn't wake me up.
3. 4/22/2013.
Sleep intervals between alarms (hrs:min): 1:30, 1:00, 1:00, 1:00
Minutes stayed awake after each alarm: ~ 2
Number of LDs recalled: 0
Number of non-LDs recalled: 0
Alarm type: Regular alarm clock.
Notes: No supplements. Each time I woke up, I tried to write down what I had been dreaming about.
4. 4/23/2013.
Sleep intervals between alarms (hrs:min): 3:30, 1:30, 1:30, 1:30
Minutes stayed awake after each alarm: ~ 1 (or less)
Number of LDs recalled: 0
Number of non-LDs recalled: 0
Alarm type: Interval timer.
Notes: Interval timer worked much better this time. Took Theanine capsule after first alarm went off. Each time I woke up, I tried to write down what I had been dreaming about. But couldn't remember enough to write down. Sometimes I just woke up and went right back to sleep. Probably should at least get out of bed and get back in. Still no recall. Maybe the first time was a fluke. Or maybe it doesn't work if you try it every night. Might be best to skip a night or two between attempts.
5. 4/24/2013.
Sleep intervals between alarms (hrs:min): 5:40, 0:30
Minutes stayed awake after each alarm: 10, 2
Number of LDs recalled: 0
Number of non-LDs recalled: 3
Alarm type: Interval timer.
Notes: Took one Theanine capsule and put on N patch at first wake-up time. Had trouble going back to sleep after the first wake-up time, so decided not to do any more wake-ups. The non-LDs were pretty good, but were probably just induced by the supplements. The WBTB probably didn't help much. But who knows?
6. 4/25/2013.
Didn't try WBTB last night. Got my silent alarm clock, though! So will be trying that out soon. Should be a useful thing to have. Besides WBTB, could be used to get up at a predetermined time to take supplements.
7. 4/26/2013.
Tried waking up 45 minutes after going to sleep. My idea was to see if I could recall any NREM dreams. Couldn't recall any.
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Was thinking it might be best not to set the first alarm to wake myself up sooner than 3 or 4 hours after going to sleep. That way I could finish the deep-sleep stage without interruption. Interrupting the deep-sleep stage might make one sleep more deeply later, which would be counterproductive. After the deep-sleep stage is over, I might want to wake up a few times. Maybe at half-hour to one-hour intervals.
Might also be interesting to try waking up about half an hour after first falling asleep, before going into the deepest stage of sleep. Not really sure. I should learn more about sleep stages.
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I think the first thought is the better way to go, john, IMO.
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I think the first thought is the better way to go, john, IMO.
Most likely.