Mortal Mist
Welcoming Boards => Lucid Dreaming Techniques => State of Mind => : Sunshine October 14, 2013, 09:58:29 PM
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It works and failing a LD its a great relaxation technique
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Definitely sounds promising, MB! Seems like I once read something similar to it somewhere else on MM, but it wasn't explained as well as here. I'll try to find that other thread.
I do sometimes meditate while falling asleep. And it does seem to have induced a few LDs. One way I meditate is to focus my attention on bodily sensations, which is the same as Step 3 of the "Cycle". I also focus attention on the feeling of breathing (inhaling and exhaling), which is a bodily sensation. But focusing on sight and hearing could also be really good. And cycling through all three seems like a great idea. One thing it might do is help keep your attention from drifting. When you just focus on one thing, such as breathing, it's very easy to get distracted by various thoughts and find yourself thinking about something, having forgotten to focus on the sensation at all. But cycling between three forms of focusing attention could make it less likely to get distracted. So it may be an easy way to stay in a meditative state for a longer period of time and also to achieve deeper levels of concentration and awareness. Besides being an LD-induction technique, it could be the key to achieving world peace. That would be a nice side effect.
Interesting that the cycle starts out with sight, which is the most complex and (yet) superficial of all the senses and ends with touch, with is the most basic, and (yet) profound of the senses. And hearing is somewhere in between, so it's Step 2. Might be a way of leading the mind gradually from a superficial level of awareness to a profound level of awareness. Or maybe not. Could be way off base about that.
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OK, found that previous reference to the technique, posted by Tom in May 2012:
http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,5336.msg133853.html#msg133853
I even mentioned at the time that I had some encouraging experiences:
http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,5336.msg136207.html#msg136207
Specifically, it allowed me to recall HI, which had never happened to me before. Had forgotten about that.
Definitely going to do further experiments with this method.
Moonbeam, you also mentioned trying it back then:
http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,6016.msg153951.html#msg153951
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I go to sleep every night and some WBTBs using similar techniques of either mindfully listening or gazing at HI or rotation of bodily awareness combined with visualizations and although it is a great way to relax and get to sleep I almost always fail to get lucid. However I agree with johnb that maybe it is the nature of moving from the senses in cycles that keeps the mind engaged. This technique is not dissimilar from some yoga nidra practices
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I go to sleep every night and some WBTBs using similar techniques of either mindfully listening or gazing at HI or rotation of bodily awareness combined with visualizations and although it is a great way to relax and get to sleep I almost always fail to get lucid. However I agree with johnb that maybe it is the nature of moving from the senses in cycles that keeps the mind engaged. This technique is not dissimilar from some yoga nidra practices
May have to practice it for awhile to get it to work. Might also be good to practice during the day from time to time, rather than just at night.
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Yes, thank you for pointing out that out, johnb. :-[ :facepalm: Well anyway, I brought it back to attention, so maybe it reminded people. At least it reminded me again.
I'm really glad you brought it up again. I'd forgotten about it, too, until I saw this thread.
How do you like rank senses into "superficial" and "profound"? What does that mean? Is that from like some meditation thing?
Good question. I was just kind of brainstorming at that point. Thinking out loud. But it's something I've heard various people talk about. Different senses affect different parts of the brain and have different mental effects. For example, why does music (something we hear) often affect us so much emotionally? Things we see don't normally have that strong an effect:
http://www.ted.com/conversations/3796/why_does_music_touch_us_emot.html
So the sense of hearing seems more "profound" than seeing. But combining hearing and seeing is even more profound. That's why a great movie with great background music can be so powerful. "Profound" is probably the wrong word. Hearing seems to me to have more emotional content than seeing. And so does touching. Also, the sense of smell. I think the memory for smells lasts longer than memory for any other sense. Anyway, my main point is that by concentrating on different senses during the "cycle", more parts of the brain may be put into higher states of awareness than concentrating on just one sense, because different senses affect the brain differently. Maybe all 5 senses should be included in the cycle, instead of just 3. (But that might be too complicated.) Or we could eventually simultaneously try to be aware of all 5 senses, without cycling through them. But that might be too difficult. And unnecessary.
I guess you can't see much when your eyes are closed, so it's not a very complex sense at that time.
Though it could get complex if you start seeing HI or other imagery generated by your mind.
I tried it this morning, but got a stabbing pain in my foot which got me out of bed. I hate those stupid random pains that are for no reason. It's not like I don't have a lot of things that should be hurting, yet some non-injured body part just starts hurting out of nowhere. :furious:
Wonder what caused that? Hope you're OK!
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I tried last night, but fell asleep. I'd like to try every time I wake up at night.
Good plan.
I understand. I was thinking about smell too.
Yes. Could try adding smell to the Cycle. Probably not at first, though.
Though it could get complex if you start seeing HI or other imagery generated by your mind.
Hopefully that will happen!
Yes.
Oh, I often have annoying random things like that to mess up my dreams. I should have got up and taken an Excedrin, for the aspirin and caffeine, but often when I do that, unless I'm really tired and caffeine-deprived, I'm awake.
I thought everybody had those weird random pains. :paranoid: I've always had them. Growing pains, they used to tell me. You think they would stop by the time you are 49.
Guess it's nothing serious, if you've always had them.
Is aspirin useful as an LDS?
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I edited the SSILD instructions to make them briefer. Click on the attached PDF document. The first page is the most important, but further details are provided on pages 2 and 3.
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I tried it last night, got very relaxed quite quickly, but then fell asleep... Would muchly prefer this to supps, but I'll take anything right now!
Thanks for the summary sheet, johnb!
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I tried this last night. It was more tiring than I expected. Fell asleep quickly.
If focusing on the waking senses can be helpful, I wonder about the extra dreaming senses.
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I don't know about aspirin, but ibuprofen has been reported to affect dreams. I wouldn't take it just for that, however.
Right. Ibuprofen can be hard on the kidneys if you take too much of it too often. At least I think that's the case.
But if one needs to take a large dose of it for some other reason, might be good to combine it with SSILD, or other induction methods.
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I tried it last night, got very relaxed quite quickly, but then fell asleep... Would muchly prefer this to supps, but I'll take anything right now!
Thanks for the summary sheet, johnb!
Tried it last night, too, without success. Kept losing concentration. But I guess that's OK with this technique. When you realize you've lost concentration, you just resume with the Cycles.
Anyway, I was really too tired last night. Wasn't a good night to try it.
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I tried this last night. It was more tiring than I expected. Fell asleep quickly.
Yes. Requires some concentration. The 5-10 minute WBTB interval is supposed to wake you up enough to enable that, I guess.
If focusing on the waking senses can be helpful, I wonder about the extra dreaming senses.
How would that work? What are the extra dreaming senses?
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I tried this last night. It was more tiring than I expected. Fell asleep quickly.
Yes. Requires some concentration. The 5-10 minute WBTB interval is supposed to wake you up enough to enable that, I guess.
If focusing on the waking senses can be helpful, I wonder about the extra dreaming senses.
How would that work? What are the extra dreaming senses?
I'm not sure how many there are, and I haven't named them as such.
I remember one is sort of a "feeling" sense. Something like what the Jedi and Sith might use. Or a radar for energy. You can know someone is standing on the other side of a closed door because you can "feel" them there.
The idea is that SSILD would engage even more senses with the inclusion of dreaming senses, and it could help catch FAs with them in the cycle.
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I don't know about aspirin, but ibuprofen has been reported to affect dreams. I wouldn't take it just for that, however.
Right. Ibuprofen can be hard on the kidneys if you take too much of it too often. At least I think that's the case.
But if one needs to take a large dose of it for some other reason, might be good to combine it with SSILD, or other induction methods.
Really only two things you need to worry about with ibuprofen - if you have kidney disease or congestive heart failure, DON'T TAKE IT!
And, take with milk or some food as can be hard on the stomach.
400mg dose is not considered a problem. Once a day (or night) is nothing - can take even 800mg 3x/day, but not really recommended for long periods of time unless you have arthritis...
I took 400mg last night with my small bit of peanut butter and square of Lindt chili chocolate!
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I tried this last night. It was more tiring than I expected. Fell asleep quickly.
Yes. Requires some concentration. The 5-10 minute WBTB interval is supposed to wake you up enough to enable that, I guess.
If focusing on the waking senses can be helpful, I wonder about the extra dreaming senses.
How would that work? What are the extra dreaming senses?
I'm not sure how many there are, and I haven't named them as such.
I remember one is sort of a "feeling" sense. Something like what the Jedi and Sith might use. Or a radar for energy. You can know someone is standing on the other side of a closed door because you can "feel" them there.
The idea is that SSILD would engage even more senses with the inclusion of dreaming senses, and it could help catch FAs with them in the cycle.
Worth a try. If you're able to focus on any particular sense, it might be helpful with this method. Even if it's a sense that's not available to us IWL. The inventor(s) of the method recommend just using vision, hearing, and touch, but other senses might work just as well, or better. People who believe in psi senses might be able to employ those as well. Even if those senses aren't real, the act of trying to engage them might help people get lucid. It might also work to just focus on one or two senses, instead of three. (I had trouble focusing on all three last night. I kept getting confused. Forgetting where I was in the Cycle.)
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I don't know about aspirin, but ibuprofen has been reported to affect dreams. I wouldn't take it just for that, however.
Right. Ibuprofen can be hard on the kidneys if you take too much of it too often. At least I think that's the case.
But if one needs to take a large dose of it for some other reason, might be good to combine it with SSILD, or other induction methods.
Really only two things you need to worry about with ibuprofen - if you have kidney disease or congestive heart failure, DON'T TAKE IT!
And, take with milk or some food as can be hard on the stomach.
400mg dose is not considered a problem. Once a day (or night) is nothing - can take even 800mg 3x/day, but not really recommended for long periods of time unless you have arthritis...
I took 400mg last night with my small bit of peanut butter and square of Lindt chili chocolate!
Thanks for the information on ibuprofen. Guess it's reasonably safe. I never worry about taking it once in awhile.
Love chili chocolate!
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Thanks for the information on ibuprofen. Guess it's reasonably safe. I never worry about taking it once in awhile.
Love chili chocolate!
I KNOW! :yahoo:
As far as remembering going through the cycles, I just thought of going through the most ? intense (visual) to the least (skin sensations), but I doubt it really matters, as long as you are changing the focus every so often.
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Thanks for the information on ibuprofen. Guess it's reasonably safe. I never worry about taking it once in awhile.
Love chili chocolate!
I KNOW! :yahoo:
Now I'm going to have to get some.
As far as remembering going through the cycles, I just thought of going through the most ? intense (visual) to the least (skin sensations), but I doubt it really matters, as long as you are changing the focus every so often.
True. Probably doesn't matter.
I think the WBTB interval is important, though.
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If focusing on the waking senses can be helpful, I wonder about the extra dreaming senses.
How can you focus on them while you are awake?
Guess you'd have to use your imagination.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lnr8THgL5k
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Hey I made a rainbow once in a lucid dream, just like Sponge Bob. :smugbow:
Wow!! Definitely a great accomplishment!! :cheers:
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black, bloody, or tarry stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds;[/url]
In other words ibuprofen is a blood thickener that can cause blood clots which in turn cause heart attacks or strokes, so it's not just people with bad hearts that need to look out for it. It's rival aspirin which is a blood thinner (the reason one is took to take it during a heart attack) it seems pretty dangerous. Anyone that's dehydrated on a hot day and has been drinking pop which further dehydrates them rather than water might be at risk.
http://www.rxlist.com/ibuprofen-side-effects-drug-center.htm (http://www.rxlist.com/ibuprofen-side-effects-drug-center.htm)
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-9368-IBUPROFEN+-+ORAL.aspx?drugid=5166&drugname=ibuprofen+oral&pagenumber=6 (http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-9368-IBUPROFEN+-+ORAL.aspx?drugid=5166&drugname=ibuprofen+oral&pagenumber=6)
It's always important to check the side effects of drugs (even when they're prescriptions). Russian Roulette is "reasonably safe", but still always a good idea to know one is playing it when on is.
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black, bloody, or tarry stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds
In other words ibuprofen is a blood thickener that can cause blood clots which in turn cause heart attacks or strokes, so it's not just people with bad hearts that need to look out for it. It's rival aspirin which is a blood thinner (the reason one is took to take it during a heart attack) it seems pretty dangerous. Anyone that's dehydrated on a hot day and has been drinking pop which further dehydrates them rather than water might be at risk.
http://www.rxlist.com/ibuprofen-side-effects-drug-center.htm
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-9368-IBUPROFEN+-+ORAL.aspx?drugid=5166&drugname=ibuprofen+oral&pagenumber=6
It's always important to check the side effects of drugs (even when they're prescriptions). Russian Roulette is "reasonably safe", but still always a good idea to know one is playing it when on is.
Good point. Nothing is 100% safe. Always should think about what one is putting in one's body.
If any of those side effects ever happen, I'll cut back or stop my ibuprofen consumption. But so far I've never have had any side effects of any kind. Not that I take much of it. A little once in awhile for a headache. Probably the side effects happen mostly at very high dosage levels taken for an extended period of time and/or in people with serious pre-existing conditions.
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Kidneys don't regenerate. It's not a reversible side effect. It happens at normal dosages, but only after prolonged use, unless you have some other reason to have bad kidneys. There are older people who have arthritis who took too much of it over their lifetime and can't take ever again.
Right. Definitely don't want messed-up kidneys.
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black, bloody, or tarry stools, coughing up blood or vomit that looks like coffee grounds;[/url]
In other words ibuprofen is a blood thickener that can cause blood clots which in turn cause heart attacks or strokes, so it's not just people with bad hearts that need to look out for it. It's rival aspirin which is a blood thinner (the reason one is took to take it during a heart attack) it seems pretty dangerous. Anyone that's dehydrated on a hot day and has been drinking pop which further dehydrates them rather than water might be at risk.
http://www.rxlist.com/ibuprofen-side-effects-drug-center.htm (http://www.rxlist.com/ibuprofen-side-effects-drug-center.htm)
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-9368-IBUPROFEN+-+ORAL.aspx?drugid=5166&drugname=ibuprofen+oral&pagenumber=6 (http://www.webmd.com/drugs/mono-9368-IBUPROFEN+-+ORAL.aspx?drugid=5166&drugname=ibuprofen+oral&pagenumber=6)
It's always important to check the side effects of drugs (even when they're prescriptions). Russian Roulette is "reasonably safe", but still always a good idea to know one is playing it when on is.
While I agree with all that info, and always good to be informed, Ibuprofen is generally a VERY safe medication when taken appropriately if you do not have gastrointestinal ulcers, congestive heart failure, or renal (kidney) disease, as I already mentioned. If taken appropriately (and I recommend it for infants teething, to use alternating with acetaminophen - Tylenol), it works very well for pain and inflammation, and even for fevers.
ALWAYS know what you are taking. EVERYTHING you use/ingest has side effects. You can even die from drinking too much water, as it can throw off your electrolytes an cause heart dysrhythmias, which if severe enough can lead to cardiac arrest and death.
OK, off my medical soapbox. ;)
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Tylenol doesn't get inflammation, and is easy to take too much and damage the liver. OK off my soapbox too, carry on. :)
Does Tylenol have ibuprofen in it?
So, you prefer aspirin? It does have health benefits. Keeps the blood from clotting too much.
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What she said :)
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No Tylenol is acetominophen. Ibuprofen and aspirin are NSAIDS, which are non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs. Ibuprofen also keeps blood from clotting, like aspirin.
Oh I take any of them at different times. You just have to be aware of the side effects of each one. My favorite is usually an aspirin/caffeine mixture, like Goodie powder or Excedrin (which I think also has acetominophen) in it.
The thing about Tylenol is that it has one of the lowest toxic doses of any over the counter drug. But if you stick to the directions for taking it, it's fine.
I rarely take painkillers anyway. But that could change. Good to know the characteristics of each.
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Have been trying SSILD a lot lately. I think it may be doing something useful. When it works well, it makes me feel really aware and peaceful at the same time. No lucidity yet, though. But I'm feeling optimistic.
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It's puts me to sleep almost instantly...
Have you tried a somewhat longer WBTB period? Or have you been doing the WBTB at all? (I know you don't like to do WBTB.) Anyway, WBTB seems to be important in the SSILD method. If I don't do at least 10 minutes of it, I fall back asleep without making it through more than a couple of Cycles.
Or, maybe combine SSILD with a supplement that keeps you from falling asleep too soon?
...but it made me realize I have pretty bad tinnitus. I never noticed before.
It's a good sign that SSILD has caused you to notice that. It seems to be making you become more aware of things as you fall asleep.
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I need to be fully awake or it puts me easily back to sleep and to do that it means switching on my mind with something like looking at stock charts at 3am. Works well with supplements for me as well
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I need to be fully awake or it puts me easily back to sleep and to do that it means switching on my mind with something like looking at stock charts at 3am. Works well with supplements for me as well
Good example of something to do during WBTB. Stock charts should wake you up a bit. Assuming you're interested in stocks, which you probably are.
Also, glad to hear combining it with supplements works well for you.
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Can tinnitus be treated, BTW? What causes it? Seems like it'd be annoying.
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I read somewhere that the noise it creates is party natural and when you cut of external noise the ear in some way generates its own noise so hearing it when you are relaxing in a quiet place may be different that hearing it all the time or becoming aware of it. I have constant ringing but or more correctly anytime I focus on my hearing it is there
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I think its normal and if your are not aware until you focus then all good, really not much different than breathing as if you focus on you breathing at anytime then its quite noisy as well but as long as your are not gasping for breath then again its all good
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qft