Part three (and final segment) of an interview conducted by JohnB at DreamKoan. October 2010 timeframe. Reproduced here with his permission:
DK: Assuming they really are connections of some kind to higher dimensions of physical reality, would it be correct to conclude that the branches representing LD's and OBE's are real in the sense that they exist independently of our minds? For example, do the dream characters we encounter in our LD's and OBE's (or even in non-lucid dreams) continue to exist and live their lives independently of us after we have awakened from our dreams? Given this multi-branch model of dreamspace and WRS, do you think it might be possible to find branches that connect to the future or the past, so that information and/or force could be transferred between the future and the present, or between the past and the present?
DrT: I think the tree model is interesting and can be interpreted in two possible ways. Let's take the first, which I am not a fan of. There is a theory which falls out of quantum and other theoretical aspects of the physics world, that human consciousness collapses wave functions and literally causes a forking off or "copy" of the universe. The two universes start out identical with the exception of one specific difference in the outcome of some event. That's the concept. Some people refer to this as the multiverse theory. I don't know if that jives sufficiently with my intuition. But there are those who believe that dreamers effectively project into a different universe or quantum thread. One that is rooted to their own at some prior point in time. So in that case, the dreamspace would certainly be physical. Dream characters would be real, etc. They would exist independent from our minds. My main trepidation surrounding this theory is the basic question of why dream characters are often times buffoons. Did the forking negatively impact their intelligence.
That's why I see that as a hard theory to swallow.
My personal view (and it's largely conjecture of course) is that dreams are in fact a true projection of your mind and hence dream characters are projections as well. But this does not mean that the dreamspace lacks physicality, or that force and information transfer between ones WRS and dreamspace are impossible.
Here's the thing though. My experience tends to suggest that the overlap (linkage) between the dreamspace and one's WRS is impacted by certain attributes: psychoactives (e.g., African Dream Root), how close the dreamspace is to WRS in terms of different properties and spatial characteristics, and so forth. I think one needs to be careful about being too 4-D in their thinking here. If the dreamspace is nearly orthogonal to our WRS, then time has little to no meaning in the dreamspace. I have realized uncanny predictions of future events in my dreams, examples way beyond reasonable chance. These personal experiences tend to suggest that time as we understand it has no analogue in one's dreamspace. It's not measurable or meaningful in any sense. There is simply little to no time dependency.
I'll wrap it up with a discussion of Robert Monroe's big picture opinion here. He felt that one's experiences out of body were the defining factor and sufficient proof to influence their personal opinions on what it all means. He saw it as a very personal experience. I couldn't agree more. Now Monroe believed that additional investigations into OBE "proved" to him that there are true physical planes and characters independent of his mind. He believed this because he had sufficient personal experience to convince him of such. I am agnostic on that point. Perhaps I have not advanced enough in a spiritual sense to be introduced to those phenomenon yet. With that said, I did have a rather uncanny series of dreams that culminated in what could be interpreted as guidance and a literal meeting from Monroe and/or an entity in his "I-there" cluster. So who knows? I think there is so much to unravel here.
DK: Yes, that does seem possible. Dreams may be a combination of elements created by our own minds and elements independent of our minds. Our experience of waking reality is similar, in a way, since it is influenced by what is actually "out there" (i.e., independent of us) as well as by the nature of our senses and our state of mind. I like what you said about proving things to oneself. Before things can be proven to others, they first have to be proven to oneself. When it comes to an exploration of dreamspace, it seems much easier to prove things to oneself than to others, since no once else can have direct experience of one's own dreams.
Now, maybe we should move on to some other topics. Could you give us some general tips on becoming lucid? What induction methods work best for you? And what are some common mistakes people make?
DrT: This is a frustrating point, this issue of common mistakes. I am a big believer in the fact that different techniques work for different people. We are all wired a little different. Sure, there are some which seem generally more productive. But the biggest mistake I see is newbies jumping from technique to technique, without a fair shake at each. They try constant reality checks for a few days, they jump to WILDs (way too advanced for a newbie anyway), they read about finger-induced lucid dreams (FILDs) and think it's the greatest concept since sliced bread, etc.
Here's the thing. A person's neurotransmitter balance during sleep plays a huge role in their ability to become lucid. But that aside. I always suggest that newbies simply take their time and read the classics. Read EWOLD, start out with dream sign categorization and constant reality checks, etc... These approaches are pretty time proven and if implemented correctly will work for many. WBTB is a great strategy because it will positively impact AcH levels and that can only help. But take your time with each. Give each one a fair shake before proceeding to the next.
MM has some top notch tutorials on a number of excellent techniques. Give them a read. Maybe one particular author or method really resonates with your personal experiences and you will want to dig into to that one first. But dig in for a month or two before concluding that it's wonderful or just not effective. It takes time to draw a valid conclusion, especially at first.
For me, I seem to have a reasonable propensity for lucid dreaming in general. So even a WBTB with affirmations that I will become lucid are generally enough to do the trick. I don't do constant reality check, etc... One way or another I bias my mind's ability to become lucid (WBTB, perhaps some supplements, perhaps CES), I review my goals and intentions, and then I return to sleep. I succeed more often than not.
But finally, there is the issue of the LDS approach. I strongly suggest that a newbie dig into natural techniques first. Without a good theoretical foundation and perhaps some modest number of lucids under one's belt, LDS probably won't make a difference. But if after 6-12 months, you feel you know a lot about lucid dreaming but have only had a handful, then by all means the LDS approach might make a lot of sense. It's a very individual decision. There are many techniques of course. The galantamine/choline mix at WBTB seems to be the most robust of the bunch. I would start there.
DK: How would you describe what is so amazing about LDs (and OBEs) to someone who has never experienced them?
DrT: I usually start out with a few analogies. Virtual reality. The holodeck on the Starship Enterprise. I get them thinking about the concept and the "what ifs"? I then usually explain that it is not particularly well known in our culture, but that those types of experiences are quite possible in their dreams, provided that they can become aware.
But ultimately what's amazing about lucid dreaming is the intrapersonal nature of the experience. That is really what I try to get across. I might ask them "what would you do in a virtual reality space that has none of physical, legal or social rules we are usually constrained by"? This catches most off guard of course. They usually need a few ideas. I throw the obvious things on the table. Flying, sexual fantasy, visiting childhood locations, etc... Suddenly, this gets people thinking. But invariably, I come back to the original point. What would THEY do with the experience. There's really no right or wrong. With experience, almost anything is possible. With a little more experience, the lucid dream scenarios exceed your ability to conceive them. You begin to let the dreamspace itself define the possibilities. This is where I try to leave it. Open ended and full of possibilities.
DK: Could you describe one or two of your favorite LDs (or OBEs) that you've had?
DrT: Let me describe two, as each jumps out at me for very different reasons. My first lucid after retraining was an extraordinary experience. I found myself driving along a road to my house from many years ago. The road takes an uphill angle and I begin to approach a cliff. For some reason I do not panic and it seems all quite reasonable. As I go over the cliff, the car continues its uphill trajectory and the car slowly vanishes, leaving only my body traversing the sky. I fly over a field with many beautiful wildflowers when it hits me all at once. Dreaming! I must be dreaming. The first thought was how real it all felt. How colorful it was, how textured, the feeling of the air hitting my face. As I looked up I approached a shimmering anomaly in the sky. It was deep blue inside, brownish on the outside and more or less rectangular in shape. I approached the anomaly (not really under my own force mind you) and was sucked into it. Within a moment I was transported to a scene that was thousands of years old, hovering over the great pyramids in pristine form. I slowly descended and approached an opening in the bottom of one of the pyramids. I entered a dark cave and continued forward for a few dozen yards before waking.
The other profound experience worth relaying here started with a non-lucid dream. I was close to finishing the trilogy by Robert Monroe and was struck by the countless similarities between his experiences and my own. In a non-lucid dream, Monroe visits my house but outright ignores my direct attempt to greet him. He and a small team of colleagues plants a satellite dish on my garage. Upon waking, it seemed to me that this could be used as a communication tool in subsequent dreams. In my next lucid dreams, I try to conjure Monroe. Instead, I get a totem pole with a bear (first lucid), and then a white rabbit statue (second lucid). Awake, I pondered the significance of the bear and totem pole symbolism. The bear seems to be consistent with my personality and a good candidate for a dream guide per American Indian folklore. In my next lucid, I try to conjure the bear. I succeed. I ask its name (per a suggestion from a native American friend in real life). It does not respond. I decide to announce that I will call it "Little Brown One". Little Brown One proceeds to teach me a lesson: That I must work more synergistically with my dreamspace. Not overpower it. In a subsequent lucid dream I conjure Little Brown One again by name. It appears. Finally, I finish the trilogy reading chapters 16 and 17, where Monroe converges on his theories. His dream guide turns out to be himself in a different physical incarnation. When Monroe meets a gate keeper of the force driving our reality, this gate keeper calls Monroe "Little One".
OK. Hopefully that condensed description and its chronology is clear. Upon reflection, it seems quite obvious that Monroe had entered my dreamspace for the sole purpose of creating a puzzle that allowed me to find a dream guide. The guide turns out to be him (or is it me, or is it both?). This revelation aligned perfectly with the timing of my finishing his written works. I simply cannot imagine how this is nothing more than a "coincidence". There it is, the "c" word again. Regardless, I consider this to be my most profound lucid dream experience to date.
DK: Before wrapping things up, could you talk a little bit about where you'd like to go from here? What experiences would you like to have in your LD's and OBE's that you haven't yet had? And what are some of the experiments you'd like perform to further test your hypotheses regarding the nature of dreams?
DrT: Hopefully I've described some of my past experiences in sufficient detail that neither answer will be a surprise. In terms of "experiences", I would like to dig deeper into this notion of dream guides and what they mean to me. My anecdotes about Monroe's experiences and my "Little Brown One" story are incredibly interesting to me. There are so many places to go. If you look at patterns in PSI phenomenon, one obvious one is that telepathy is most likely to be realized among people with a close emotional connections. Well who is closer to you, than you? By this I mean to imply that information transfer to yourself is an interesting thing to explore. This can take the form of a time shifted message. Or if you're familiar with Monroe's work and his idea of an I-there cluster, it could take the form of a message or guidance from another member of your cluster. I do believe that these types of message transfers are very real possibilities. To be honest, I believe that a good deal of my guidance and motivation has been received by these mechanisms in subtle and at times not so subtle ways. I want to continue to explore this in a very intuitive sense. If my intuition senses that specific message passing experiments might be interesting, that's what I'll pursue. If my intuition and dream experiences lead me down a path of leveraging my dreamspace to communicate with and receive ideas from various dream guides, I'll pursue that. I realize it sounds very open ended. But going back to a previous point, I feel I've realized some extraordinary experiences to date. I didn't over think any of these. They unfolded of their own accord. I just followed a bread crumb trail, if you will. If indeed a bread crumb trail is being set-up, who is laying the path? And why? Now those are interesting questions.
As far as my hypothesis on dreamspace physicality and so forth, I plan to pursue the obvious first. As discussed previously, I want to try to nail down a more definitive dreamspace to waking reality space experiment and result. That is the proverbial holy grail. But how to do this? Without a sufficiently developed set of theories, it boils down to reasonable trial and error. I do have some interesting preliminary results and conjectures about what might be going on. I think there are really only two major possibilities. These need to be explored and new experiments developed. Going back to the previous paragraph, it is not unreasonable to think that I can tap into my dreamspace for some of the answers. Presenting some general querries to dream characters or my dreamspace in general are places to start. I've learned to trust the wisdom behind this approach.
DK: I've really enjoyed this interview, DrTechnical. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I look forward to hearing more about your research and experiences in the near future.
