Author Topic: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD  (Read 13270 times)

Offline pj

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I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« on: March 01, 2009, 08:45:09 AM »
This idea has emerged from experiences of this past week.  Three times now I have been sure I have been laying awake, waiting for the onset of HI or vibrations or something to indicate a transition, only to discover by RC that I'm actually asleep!  Here is the most recent experience: http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php/topic,5.msg49576.html#msg49576

So the big question is this; is this unique to me, or is it something we're all missing?

The next time you are laying there seemingly awake while trying to WILD or just apparently having a bad night, try doing an RC every so often.  You might just be as surprised as I have been the last three times I got lucid.

Please report any results here!
What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

--pj

Offline The Littlest Leaf Dragon

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2009, 12:27:49 PM »
I've got no personal results to report, but it's very common for people I've been talking to to mention among their WILD attempts that they were asleep without realizing it and still trying to WILD.  Definitely something that seems pretty common.

Offline folded

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2009, 01:19:19 PM »
I've never actually RC'd in a dream.  Not that I can remember anyway.  But, when I used to have the time to have naps, I found that quite often thoughts from "real life" or daydreams led to situations where lights didn't work, or doorknobs did funny things, and then I would know it's a dream and attain some level of lucidity -- but I wouldn't be doing a purposeful RC to discover this, it was just by accident during a nap dream.  And, there was no obvious transition to the sleep state.

Unfortunately, I most often woke up in those cases.

Offline Hazel

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2009, 01:23:50 PM »
I had something similar happen twice in the same night last summer. (Although I wasn't trying to WILD.) I had supposedly awakened, and I wrote down a dream that I just had. Then, out of habit, I RCd and was amazed to find that it was a dream. Normally my dreams have a dream-like quality, but this felt EXACTLY like real life, with no difference whatsoever.
Do you know the terror of he who falls asleep? To the very toes he is terrified, Because the ground gives the way under him, And the dream begins... - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Sunshine

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2009, 03:38:16 PM »
(content removed by user request)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:04:01 PM by pj »

Offline dodobird

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 04:15:13 AM »
Ha, this happened to me tonight several times :p Once even inside a dream... I tried to WILD during the dream, and was frustrated that I remain "awake" while laying in the dream bed.
The problem, as Moonbeam said is to do an RC without moving, because if you move while close to a WILD, it might ruin it. Maybe an RC of conjuring images in your mind would work. If you see the images much more vivid than what you expect from normal visualization, then you might be dreaming, and can try another, more active RC.



Offline Alex Lou

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 04:42:13 AM »
I may have just been dreaming about this thread, but I just had two lucid dreams that are seemingly the result of this:

In the first I was lying in bed when a voice (I think it was supposed to be pj's) tells me to wake up to the fact that I'm dreaming.  The second time I'm lying in bed when I remember the previous experience and the thread.  I check myself and find that I am dreaming.

Offline Alex Lou

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2009, 02:20:01 PM »
So I did some experiments this morning and had two more lucids this way in conjunction with DEILD.  I also had another attempt in which my RCs failed.  Difficult to tell if they failed for the right reasons or the wrong ones.

Offline Namaste

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 10:57:39 AM »
This would certainly be worth a try and I guess that if you are going on and on with the WILD attempt and nothing appears to be happening anyway it would be a good idea to do an RC of somekind!
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Offline mu

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 02:47:59 AM »
pj, the other day I was reading your DJ, in particular the dream you linked to. I was thinking how similar it sounded to some of the dreams I've been having lately. Just like you said:

They start laying in bed, thinking you just woke up--until you notice you floated into the air or have seven fingers or something. I usually float, but once it was the fingers.

Then it's usually like the real rooms, house, yard, etc., more or less, but gets weirder further away from the bed. This has been happening more lately. It is indeed really cool.

How would you describe your consciousness during this? It seems rather different and high level to me.

Offline pj

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 08:14:09 AM »
Thanks to all who have given this some thought!  It is encouraging to know this "rings" with some of you.  All the comments are appreciated!  There is quite a bit more to the thought behind this, but I'm refraining from posting it here for a bit yet, until there is more awareness and feedback.

@Alex Lou - FOUR lucids from this?  And in two days?  Not too shabby.

@Namaste - Exactly.  I'm now wondering how much lucidity has been wasted laying there in an already lucid state wishing I would fall asleep and get lucid.

@mu - My consciousness during these is so like my waking consciousness that it is difficult to believe I'm sleeping.  It is not like coming to lucidity in a dream, though often it transitions to that much lower state of consciousness.  Pretty much what you are describing. . . like that one where my house was completely normal until I went into the basement and tried spinning - the basement was where things started getting odd.

@dodobird - I hear you, but at the same time wonder how often that fear of waking never let me come to realize I wasn't really awake at all?  The floating test is a good one.  There must be others.

@Moonbeam - You've summed up the crux of this realization well. . . wondering how much actual lucidity we might be wasting thinking we're laying there awake when in reality we are asleep and already lucid.

@Hazel - Luminous pointed out how similar this is to False Awakenings, which is what you are describing.  In that sense, laying there thinking you are awake would indeed be a "false awake", though we never thought we had slept in the first place.

@folded - Those anomalies really ARE RCs, or become RCs when we pay attention to them.  I've had a lot of lucid dreams during afternoon naps.

@wolvendeer - Yes, it does seem common. . . as common as laying there thinking you've failed yet again at WILDing because you are never going to get to sleep or transition.

As soon as you are experiencing HI, find a way to RC.  That's the ticket.



What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

--pj

Offline Luminous

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 10:46:23 AM »
A good way to RC without moving is to try to float upwards.

Also, when I start to see HI and I know I'm heading into a WILD, I sometimes do a kind of RC to determine if I've entered a dream yet, or if I'm still watching HI. I do this by trying to find and see my hands. If I'm still watching HI, I won't have a dream body yet, and when they do pop up, I slowly wave my hands in front of my face and try to fix my eyes on the hand. I can only move my eyes in a smooth motion when I'm *actually* looking at something moving, either in reality or when in a dream. At least for me, HIs aren't *real* enough for my eyes to be fixed on so that they can move smoothly.

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Offline Alex Lou

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 05:18:41 PM »
FOUR lucids from this?  And in two days?  Not too shabby.
It's nothing conclusive, I'm afraid.  I probably would have had the two second lucids anyway from the DEILD.  If anything it just got me lucid sooner.  And I still can't rule out the possibility that I'm just dreaming about this thread.

As soon as you are experiencing HI, find a way to RC.  That's the ticket.
Hmm, I'd say RC before HI.  I didn't have any visual HI during any of mine.

Offline Hazel

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Re: I'm Not Really Awake Lucid Dream - INRALD
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 08:37:20 PM »
Quote
Luminous pointed out how similar this is to False Awakenings, which is what you are describing.  In that sense, laying there thinking you are awake would indeed be a "false awake", though we never thought we had slept in the first place.

Oh, I see your point. In that case, I've never become lucid from this. I'll have to remember to RC the next time I'm trying to WILD to no avail.
Do you know the terror of he who falls asleep? To the very toes he is terrified, Because the ground gives the way under him, And the dream begins... - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline pj

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INRALD - The rest of the story?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2009, 07:27:51 PM »
There is a theory that goes along with this technique.  It is only a theory - like any theory, I propose it in hopes that it may be proved or disproved through our effort and experience.

The theory is that all of our non DILD techniques are nothing more than experiences we are having when already asleep.  In other words, a WILD is nothing more than us dreaming about successfully transitioning directly from awake to dream, and that it only really works when we are ALREADY fully asleep.  Our intention and preparation are incubating a dream.  We then dream of success. . . or failure.  If this is true, then there is likely no such thing as a WILD.  WILDing may really be just another form of DILD, different only in that we are convinced we are awake at the beginning of the exercise.  If this is true, then "successfully" WILDing becomes irrelevant.

The trick, of course, is to remember this possibility and find another way to figure out if we are awake or not - to test our state of consciousness when we think we are laying there awake, waiting for something to happen.  Perhaps many of those wasted hours of seeming to lay there awake, waiting for transition, are nothing of the sort - and are opportunities just waiting for us to exploit.

Consider two of the oddball WILDing techniques that have seen some success; the FILD and Reverse Blinking methods.  Both of these are similar in that they require testing for dream state without expecting a transition.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 08:18:21 PM by pj »
What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

--pj