Author Topic: Topic 4: Leadership  (Read 7621 times)

Offline pj

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Topic 4: Leadership
« on: September 21, 2011, 05:04:45 PM »
What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

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Offline Sunshine

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 05:10:26 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:04:01 PM by pj »

Offline IndigoGhost

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 05:12:15 PM »
I would say you are our natural leader PJ. Someone who is fair, who only will get involved if he knows he can contribute to a solution and who everyone looks up to. You are the leader or at least one of them in my eyes.  :angel:
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Offline StarSeeker

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 05:21:52 PM »
I would say you are our natural leader PJ. Someone who is fair, who only will get involved if he knows he can contribute to a solution and who everyone looks up to. You are the leader or at least one of them in my eyes.  :angel:
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Offline pj

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 05:28:46 PM »
I guess it depends on whether or not we need leaders for what we want to do.  If somebody wanting something in particular to happen, they would have to be leader enough to get it going, show other people why it would be good, maintain it, etc.  With what we do now, I guess we don't really need leaders.  Again, probably a lack of vision or something on my part.

How do we even know what we want to do?  Is a lack of coordination directly translatable to mean the membership wants to keep things exactly as they are?  The members, who are intended to be the owners, do not really have a voice.  Even if a thread gets started over an issue or idea, everybody always seems to be waiting for somebody else to make it happen or at least say with some kind of authority, "Yeah - let's do that!"

(There are exceptions, but they are rare enough to prove the rule.)

I would say you are our natural leader PJ. Someone who is fair, who only will get involved if he knows he can contribute to a solution and who everyone looks up to. You are the leader or at least one of them in my eyes.  :angel:

You are most gracious, and I am humbled.

If I am going to continue to wield technical authority and access - those areas where I really have the most to contribute - then I cannot safely be a leader.  Even if I could, I just don't have that in me anymore.  I'm almost 51 and busy.  There's a lot of life away from this place that I intend to live.  It is time for others to step into that role - if we are to have leaders at all.

IMHO.
What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

--pj

Offline StarSeeker

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2011, 05:53:29 PM »
Right now, the way I see it, we have a few background leaders too.

Moonbeam, Wolvendeer, mu, DrT, Burned Up and, to a lesser extent, AspiR, exert some influence over the community which could be seen as a form of leadership. But I think this is organic and arises from their long stay here at MM and their personality.
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Offline pj

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2011, 07:46:30 PM »
Fully agreed.  There are many here who exhibit excellent leadership characteristics and even exercise leadership to a degree.

You are among those, Star.
What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

--pj

Offline AspirationRealized

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2011, 08:07:10 PM »
I think leadership occurs regardless of whether it is explicitly stated or not. If you look at that definition, anyone who enlisted the help of others to achieve something for MM (or, at least, sought approval from others) was a leader. I once had "project leader" as my title instead of newsletter, and I like this term. MM has had many project leaders.

I would even argue that this is the only sort of leadership that MM is capable of facilitating in its current form. The concept of equal ownership to all members doesn't allow a "leader" in the sense of higher influence or authority, as the term is classically applied (or rather how we often envision it).

Of course if you're a leader frequently enough you'll earn a reputation for it. In that sense we have lots of leaders, heavy hitters, regulars, oldies, whatever you want to call it. Unfortunately I think this disparity can actually be hurtful in the long run. Allow me to explain.

At many forums I've been to there is a group of oldies who have good reputation,  high respect, or influence. This is usually naturally due to seniority (specifically the "founders"), or high activity but usually early on. It almost always applies to the "golden days" of a forum when it was doing really well, a time that always seems to be regarded more fondly than the forum's present state.

Noticing this pattern at many forums I tried to figure out what it all means. I realized something about these highly esteemed individuals, or rather moreso the way the forum, particularly newcomers, regarded them. There becomes this sense that they've achieved this status and now that they are fulfilling this "role", the position of highly influential member is no longer available. This is either due to a newer member's lack of belief in themselves through inexperience, or the worry it'll be seen as disrespectful or the fear of "stepping on someones toes".

What I'm saying is once forums establish these leaders (again, whether intended or not - this is a natural progression whether observed or stated or completely unacknowledged) newcomers don't feel as though that position is attainable. Because these leaders are of a "higher order" that has already been established, the natural inclination is that this influence is already reserved.

Unfortunately when the leaders aren't replaced and dwindle naturally due to attrition, and as people continue to gaze at the golden days through rose tinted glasses, therby becoming even less impressed with today, the forum in general seems more and more uninspired, and if the pattern continues the forum will fizzle out.

This is what I've witnessed for many of the forums I've went to. But as I post this I wonder if anyone will make sense of this or if you'll all think I'm completely crazy and this is just nonsense.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2011, 08:34:59 PM by AspirationRealized »
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2011, 10:38:08 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:04:01 PM by pj »

Offline AspirationRealized

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2011, 11:24:01 PM »
I don't really think we are talking about the same things here. You seem to be applying this to the direction of the content. I'm speaking purely from a "meta" standpoint here. I'm talking about people applying themselves to the community, not forum topic (I'm not really sure where the "pitiful" games tie to this?).

As for past vs present if you look at mu's thread a common repeated concept was what we used to be, I believe even you chimed in a few times in that regard. I suppose my point is I'm seeing some similarities to the perspectives here and other forums I've been to that went through the same thing.

But we do seem to have an accord that the present is more important. What I posted was something of a caution against pointing out how things were better before and focus on making them better now.
Drow, drow, drow your canoe
 The stream provides flotation
 Hysterically, hysterically, hysterically, hysterically
 Existence is hallucination

...have you ever met anyone who actually changed?

Offline mu

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 12:14:50 AM »
AspiR, the trouble with your theory is that anyone who wanted to lead in such situations would not find any real obstacles (by definition), and in any case would not be themselves deterred.  Especially here, where the "oldies" couldn't be less intimidating, and are openly inviting of them.

My guess is there's simply little motivation to lead.  Towards what?  The oldies that began things were motivated enough to..begin things, whether they had some exact goal, or vague vision.  That's what was "golden" about it.  Leaders create, and are created by, times like that.

My guess (I can't stand SC; every post I make, there's some stupid phrase like that, that I keep repeating over, and over..  Last post I said "thing" 97 times.  :?) is that people are generally happy with how things are, have no real vision of anything different, or don't want any new responsibilities.  If they become unhappy for whatever reason, they leave.

I know that's not a very helpful observation, and it's not meant to be critical, but I think that's the simple truth of it.  The end result is a group of people that, while probably pretty happy, haven't changed anything in a long time, and probably won't.  If someone new comes along, and by some happy coincidence they feel at home, or make some friends, they might stay; but things are very unlikely to ever change much at all--without a leader.  One day the end will finally come, when the site becomes non-functional for some technical reason or other, due to lack of interest.

Offline Rebel Seven

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2011, 01:52:06 AM »
The Golden Days? Stagnation? Lack of interest?

These are my Golden Days, Mortalmist has become more influential to my dreams and my life than I thought a forum ever could, and sparked more interest in the most eclectic variety of dreaming subjects than I even knew there were. I find the people here supportive, ingenious, comfortable, and knowledgeable.

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Offline AspirationRealized

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2011, 02:12:49 AM »
The lack of obstacles is my point though. Even though there's an open invitation, so to speak, to influence the community people very rarely stand up. I think that the concept of MM being equal standing for ever is really unusual compared to real life and its sort of "lost" on a lot of people. The MM "leaders" are all very helpful and inviting, but the separation is not something they are willing for better or worse; its how the rest of the forum regards them, and a lot of times it isn't intentional, more of the natural flow of things.

That being said, being content with the way things are would mean less cause for change, yes. There is still the sudden drop in activity, however...
Drow, drow, drow your canoe
 The stream provides flotation
 Hysterically, hysterically, hysterically, hysterically
 Existence is hallucination

...have you ever met anyone who actually changed?

Offline StarSeeker

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2011, 05:00:31 AM »
My guess (I can't stand SC; every post I make, there's some stupid phrase like that, that I keep repeating over, and over..  Last post I said "thing" 97 times.  :?)
You counted?

I must say I don't think that in MM new-comers are restricted from leadership. It's all very organic, and I've seen newcomers can reach it in a very short time, they just need to be interested in discussing things.

The Golden Days? Stagnation? Lack of interest?
To me the Golden Days have just arrived again. It was only a storm. ;)

The lack of obstacles is my point though. Even though there's an open invitation, so to speak, to influence the community people very rarely stand up.
This is not a problem exclusive to MM, but to most societies in general, and even though I have been meditating on the roots of that problem, I have yet to reach a conclusion.
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: Topic 4: Leadership
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2011, 07:36:23 AM »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:04:01 PM by pj »