Author Topic: Topic 5: Real Member-Management  (Read 8253 times)

Offline StarSeeker

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Re: Topic 5: Real Member-Management
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2011, 06:32:50 AM »
The only thing in the way of ads I would ever want to see here is ads for community related things, such as perhaps a banner advertising the Monthly Meeting Place or something along those lines.
That would be cool!
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Offline pj

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Re: Topic 5: Real Member-Management
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2011, 07:37:27 AM »
He just wants our EXPLICIT blessing.

Sorry for putting words in your mouth :bigsmile:

The words obviously needed to be inserted, and I thank you for doing so.  (Excuse me while I get my feet out of the way to make it easier.)  The cacophony of jumbled observations was my apparently lame attempt to convey what goes on in my own mind.  Duplicating that process probably isn't in anybody's best interest at all.

Look at all the discussion that has gone on in this thread of topics.  The "Leadership" topic has garnered the most discussion - but to what possible end?  WHO IS GOING TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, AND HOW WOULD THAT DECISION BE EXECUTED?

Sorry to shout, but that's what this all comes down to.  It isn't about what we should do, but rather about how we might grant a real voice to the membership to DO at all.

Right now, it is expected that one of us four involved in functional management will see something in there we like and just make it happen.  While this is exactly how things worked during the Administrator and Aegis Guild eras, we all stepped very deliberately away from that role earlier this year.  We stopped being leaders, because we recognize that combining executive (leader) authority with the power and access of functional management is a bad idea.  What we had was a full benevolent dictatorship.  What we have now is a headless benevolent dictatorship.  The brain stem remains, keeping the body alive. . . but there is no way to make anything happen unless one of us breaks our vows of celibacy.  Or something like that.  (Damned mixed metaphors.)

In still other words, I made a decision (in conjunction with the others involved in management) to stop being an executive.  In that regard, I retired - quietly but deliberately, and I intend to remain in retirement.  The others involved in functional management followed suit, to one degree or another.  Nothing has appeared or happened since to fill the executive void, witnessed by the fact that nothing much at all has happened since in spite of great ideas and intentions continuing to be presented from time to time.

We don't have to change anything, but I am not happy or comfortable with the current state of things here because of my involvement in creating the "headless dictatorship."  That may be my problem alone. . . and just having said it out loud and in an ultra confusing, pedantic manner makes me feel better about it.  That doesn't change anything for you, the membership, however.  The aberration I perceive does remain.  All the expose was necessary to show that choices - REAL choices - really can be made.  Well - could be made, if we had a way to make them.  We don't.

YOU can have a real voice here.  You can take real ownership over this place.  If that is to happen, it has to begin somewhere.  It isn't going to happen with some hugely complex pseudo-parliamentary representative system, because we aren't big enough or active enough to support it.  I have offered one simple possibility to achieve it, and perhaps it is a lousy one.  It is my hope, however, that just thinking about the possibilities will bring about a shift in what it really means to be an Owner here.

Onward.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2011, 09:11:24 AM by pj »
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Offline StarSeeker

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Re: Topic 5: Real Member-Management
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2011, 11:48:03 AM »
Onward.
Proposals. Voting. Town Hall. Thank you system?
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Offline Deuce_Nukem

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Re: Topic 5: Real Member-Management
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 06:17:07 PM »
So... I'm not a member of any guilds.. and I don't honestly consider myself an active enough member (i'm a bit hit or miss on attendance) to have the say that many here deserve... but I do feel the need to go ahead and throw my $0.02 in here... Because why not?

My main focus here will be pj. I may or may not branch into other things..

It appears to me, throughout all five of these topics, that the biggest concern our infamous founding father has... is that absolute power corrupts absolutely. He is more than happy to continue pulling the wagon, but feels that it is simply not enough of a community decision if he is acting as the powerplant and also the navigator and also the first officer and also comms... He has no intention whatsoever to unstrap from the wagon, and he's going to continue pulling it in whatever direction whoever decides it needs to go in, or be perfectly content to stand and guard it. His concern is that the one pulling the wagon shouldn't be steering it, as that in itself is too much power for any one person to have in a community-owned carriage such as this...

This is just what I've gathered, and my metaphor may not be perfect but I trust that if I'm wrong, I will be corrected.

Now... To pj, and with my apologies to everyone else involved not mentioned (I am, as I said, not the most active or informed member, I simply want to toss my opinion out there for reflection), I have this to say...

It is literally impossible for you to have absolute power, and I'd venture so far as to say that I have sincere doubts that you are corruptible under your own power, sir. Why? Because of all this. Because of what you've said and because of your obvious concerns. You care too much about the thing as a whole to ever do anything that wasn't in the community's best interest. I won't deny that having one person 'in control' may leave it open to mistakes, but what's the difference between one person's ability to make mistakes and a whole group of people's ability? None.. But at least a person in your position, of your mindset, would be quick to admit any mistakes, and easily as quick to fix them to the very best of their ability.

In short... Dude, I don't think there is a single person who's ever been a member of this community who's had any real interaction with you at all that believes you would ever intentionally do us wrong. You simply care too much. This place isn't your burden, it's your creation. Your child. Speaking from the perspective of a child to one's father.... Dad... It's okay for you to tell us what you think is best for us.. even try to push us in that direction. You raised us to have enough presence of mind to make our own decisions, that doesn't mean we don't want to at least try things how you think they aught to be.

Now.. I understand where you're coming from. You don't have the time you once did, you don't want to be in the 'father' role.. at least not completely. That's okay! We're gonna love you all the same. We know what you've done, we know what kind of a man you are, and we appreciate it. If the guilds and admins are sincerely concerned about us coming to a standstill.... how about doing something as simple as asking the question.. to everyone... be it in a newsletter, or a simple forum redirect that would have the member fill out a very small survey. "Are you happy with MM's current direction, etc. Would you like to see some sort of member management elected by a democratic system. Would you volunteer for a management position if it were available." Etc. etc. etc.. Surely the correct questions can be drafted up, I'm being very general here.

Anyway... Be at ease, pj. To my knowledge.. You have done nothing - nothing - wrong. To anyone. You've done nothing that a reasonable person can't comprehend as being in the best interest of the community you helped to create.. and I don't know of anyone that would ever go so far as to call you a dictator. If all dictators were like you, I imagine we'd have a much less blood-filled history for this world...

So... yeah. I'm about out of steam... Did this post accomplish anything at all?

I'll feel a little silly if this thread (from a month ago) has already come to definite conclusions and all this typing has been for naught... I won't take a word of it back, I'll just feel silly if I'm beating a dead horse. ;)
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: Topic 5: Real Member-Management
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 10:13:49 PM »
(content removed by user request)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:04:01 PM by pj »

Offline Deuce_Nukem

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Re: Topic 5: Real Member-Management
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2011, 10:48:37 PM »
Of course. He did manage to make it extremely clear, though, that everything we have right now should be obtainable and maintainable without him... The way he presented it, though, sounded to me like an attempt to say 'look, tell me what you really think... I promise I'm not integral, not the straw keeping the camel's back from breaking. I'm just a guy and you can do this without me'.. I didn't get the 'I am sick of authority and responsibility' impression at all, I got the 'please, please don't think that this is impossible without me or that I am necessary for this place to exist' vibe. --Which only served to prove my point a little more.

So.. My idea has been stated. Something as simple as a request to fill out a survey in the next newsletter, or a forum redirect. Each member, at the home screen, could be redirected (one time only) to another page that had a place to fill out a few simple questions involving MM's direction and path and potential future leadership. That way only active people get the survey or people who care enough to at least glance at the newsletter... The people who give a damn about the site.

Comments? Concerns? Please, ladies and gents, discuss...
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Offline StarSeeker

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Re: Topic 5: Real Member-Management
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2011, 05:47:19 PM »
Each member, at the home screen, could be redirected (one time only) to another page that had a place to fill out a few simple questions involving MM's direction and path and potential future leadership. That way only active people get the survey or people who care enough to at least glance at the newsletter... The people who give a damn about the site.
I think its' a fine starting point :)
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