WBTB timing (how much sleep should I get?)

[Gen]

I had some success with WILDs doing WBTB a few years back, and have recently been trying to get back into it, but am having some issues with being either too tired or too awake and not quite being able to find that sweet spot of balanced energy... I have no trouble going to sleep at night, sometimes if I set my alarm too early I'm so sleepy I can't drag myself out of bed, but then sometimes I'm a really light sleeper so if I wake in the night, it takes me ages to get back to a restful state, and I tend to need quite a long sleep time before I start to remember my dreams.

So I was wondering, for those of you who use this technique, what works best for you?
Do you get an early night?
What time of the night do you WBTB?
How long do you sleep for?
Do you find you have to force yourself to wake up, or do you wake up naturally?
How long do you stay awake for before going back to bed?
How do you feel energetically (tired or awake) when you WBTB?

I'm finding it all very frustrating, because I know this can work for me if I can find the right balance (it's worked in the past but I guess my energies have changed a little and I need to alter my approach somehow), so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Gen

[iadr]

So I was wondering, for those of you who use this technique, what works best for you?
Do you get an early night?
What time of the night do you WBTB?
How long do you sleep for?
Do you find you have to force yourself to wake up, or do you wake up naturally?
How long do you stay awake for before going back to bed?
How do you feel energetically (tired or awake) when you WBTB?

Hi Gen,

Iadr uses WBTB almost every night with fairly good success, but lets his body dictate how much sleep he has before getting up, as he never uses an alarm to wake up with, but just gets up when his subconscious wakes him up from a dream and he feels rested enough to get up, which some nights might be 1 1/2 hour after going to bed, while other nights can be anywhere from 3 1/2 hours to 6 hours after going to bed.

We usually stay up just long enough to get a bite to eat, which is usually less than 30 minutes, because staying up longer than this tends to wake us up too much to be able to go back to sleep. WBTB time has always been the best time for us to take supplements, as they just work better after having gotten some sleep first.

On many nights over 90 percent of our dreams comes after having gotten up and taken some supplements at WBTB time, because it's just easier to remember dreams and get lucid after having gotten some sleep first.

Best of luck to you!

[DrTechnical]

Everyone is different. Here is what works best for me (by example)

9:00   take 3 mg melatonin to encourage REM suppression
10:00  sleeping
3:00   wake for WBTB. Watch music videos or something otherwise distracting and mundane so I don't get too wide awake (also take 200 mg L-theanine for relaxation)
3:55   try to go back to sleep, review my intentions, goals, make an affirmation that I will LD.

If I successfully LD, I always feel invigorated when wake. If I fail, the lack of sleep might impact me. So be it. That's the price to be paid. Drink an extra coffee or two during the day.

Sometimes I don't fall asleep till 4:30 or 5:00. Or sometimes I don't sleep at all. It happens. Again, it's the price to be paid.

[Gen]

Thanks guys,
Yeah, everyone is different, it's all a bit of trial and error getting it right.. I'm just fishing for ideas.
Yes, I forgot about L-Theanine that did used to help alot. Will give that another go.

 

[bluebird]

Does anyone do more than one WBTB in a night? I feel like it might be vastly more effective for recall, and also if you don't get lucid in the first 45m-1hr after doing the WBTB maybe it becomes more difficult to become lucid at all unless you WBTB again?

Just a thought...

[johnb]

Thanks guys,
Yeah, everyone is different, it's all a bit of trial and error getting it right.. I'm just fishing for ideas.
Yes, I forgot about L-Theanine that did used to help alot. Will give that another go.

 

BTW, L-Theanine not only helps you relax, but also (paradoxically) increases your ability to pay attention, which is what you need to do to get lucid. I recently found a good article on it at consumerlabs.com.

Excerpts from that article:

L-theanine has been shown to have a direct influence on brain activity, such as reducing stress. At high doses (higher than usual doses found in a cup of black tea [20 mg (milligrams)]), it has the ability to relax the mind without causing drowsiness. One study measured a type of activity in the brain, called alpha activity, which plays an important role in attention. Thirty-five participants were given either 50 mg of L-theanine or placebo. Electroencephalogram (EEG) tests were done at baseline and then at specified times afterwards (45, 60, 75, 90, and 105 minutes). Researchers found that there was a greater increase in alpha activity in those who took L-theanine compared to placebo, demonstrating that the amino acid had an effect on the participants' general state of mental alertness and arousal.

A handful of studies have also looked at the combination of L-theanine and caffeine on various aspects of cognition and mood (eg, alertness, attention). For instance, one study compared the effect of caffeine with and without L-theanine on cognition and mood in 27 participants. Researchers gave participants placebo, caffeine, or caffeine plus L-theanine and measured their performance on several cognitive tests at baseline and then at 60 and 90 minutes after treatment. They found that the combination of caffeine and L-theanine improved speed and accuracy in an attention-switching task, as well as reduced the likelihood of distraction during a memory task. Caffeine alone did improve alertness and accuracy.

Researchers in Korea conducted a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled study to look at the effect of L-theanine on memory and attention in 91 people with mild cognitive impairment. Half of the participants were given 1,680 mg of L-theanine (LGNC-07) and the other half was given placebo for 16 weeks. Memory and word tests were conducted, as well as EEG tests. The researchers found that L-theanine improved memory and selective attention, as well as cognitive alertness.

[johnb]

Does anyone do more than one WBTB in a night? I feel like it might be vastly more effective for recall, and also if you don't get lucid in the first 45m-1hr after doing the WBTB maybe it becomes more difficult to become lucid at all unless you WBTB again?

Just a thought...

Seems like a great idea.

[Zhon]

Back when I practiced LD regularly, my WBTB's only needed about 5 minutes of wakefulness in the middle of the night.  Wake up, shut the alarm off, remind myself to go lucid, then back under the covers.  It didn't always result in LD's, but the dreams that followed were always vivid and easy to recall.

[Heidiho775]

I always stay awake for 1 full hour. In this time i read in my dream journal and in books about lucid dreaming. Sometimes I even do a walk with my dog