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Author Topic: DC's - A form of minor dissociative identity disorder?  (Read 322 times)
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« on: February 14, 2010, 06:32:18 PM »

"How didst thou make division of Thyself?"—William Shakespeare, Twelfth Night

One of the things that fascinates me about dreaming in general is the apparent mental autonomy that dream characters have. Yes under scrutiny they sometimes spout nonsense, but nevertheless they do seem to operate quite independently of even the most lucid of dreamers.

DC's are part of you, part of your mind/ego but yet they can seemingly have quite distinct self-contained personalities that are sometimes quite complex.

Are DC's representations of parts of your subconscious/personality which diverged from your current ego at some point in your past and are now self-contained personalities within your mind? or are they are simply an elaborate illusion that your subconscious creates to give the dreamer an animate object to interact with to create a close representation of the outside world.

The latter would be the easy/obvious conclusion, but I'm not entirely convinced.

An interesting read along similar lines is: The Dream Character as Prototype for the Multiple Personality Disorder Alter by Deirdre Barrett, Ph.D., assistant professor of Psychology at Harvard Medical School.

Would be interested to hear peoples' thoughts. (forgive the pun!)
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2010, 06:59:11 PM »

I think DC's and the way they act, things they say, and their apparent independence are the strangest things about lucid dreams too.

Are DC's representations of parts of your subconscious/personality which diverged from your current ego at some point in your past and are now self-contained personalities within your mind? or are they are simply an elaborate illusion that your subconscious creates to give the dreamer an animate object to interact with to create a close representation of the outside world.

I have trouble believing I have any sustained independent personalities, because I get so few repeat DC's.  They can be more or less well-formed, but even the most highly developed ones don't seem to live more than the length of a single dream.  I know that is not everybody's experience however.

I just don't know; but I agree that it's one of the most fascinating aspects of dreaming.
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2010, 08:20:07 PM »

I cannot find this book on Amazon.  Can you provide an ISBN number?  I'd really like to read it.

I agree, dream characters are obviously a manifestation of our subconcious mind and it never ceases to amaze me when interacting with them.  They can come up with some of the most amazing things..

You raise such an interesting point!!  Are DC's some aspect of your personality that was supressed or altered during your past?  Possibly as a result of extreme emotional distress?  I would REALLY like to read that book!
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 03:49:32 AM »

An interesting idea.  I'm not quite sure what I think about it, but it's definitely possible!  Heck, it could make a good explanation for the 'independents' to those who don't believe dreams take place outside of our own heads.  I'll have to think on that possibility.

I haven't read it yet, but what he referred to is located here, among other places.
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache%3AFZNuoaJMQLIJ%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fscholarsbank.uoregon.edu%2Fxmlui%2Fbitstream%2Fhandle%2F1794%2F1595%2FDiss_8_1_9_OCR.pdf%3Fsequence%3D1+The+Dream+Character+as+Prototype+for+the+Multiple+Personality+Disorder+Alter+by+Deirdre+Barrett%2C+Ph.D.&hl=en
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« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2010, 08:26:42 AM »

DC interactions have been intriguing me since I started lucid dreaming as an adult, and I think is an area that will bear a great deal of further exploration and experimentation.

Here's a book I'm reading through very slowly and deliberately that talks a great deal about DCs and DC interactions - things learned from the systematic exploration of three prolific lucid dreamers:

http://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Exploration-Dreaming-Discovering-Control/dp/1585005398/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1266240247&sr=8-1

It is a worthy read, but not an easy read.  The information and reasoning are densely packed. . . I generally read a paragraph or two a night and then digest it.
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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 09:25:12 AM »

This one seems to be kinda advanced. Is there any other great book for lucid dreaming?
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« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 09:36:10 AM »

There are many!

Robert Waggoner's book is a great one, and he occasionally pops in around here:
http://www.lucidadvice.com/

If you've not read LaBerge's classic, Exploring The World Of Lucid Dreaming, that is where most of us here started:
http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-World-Dreaming-Stephen-Laberge/dp/034537410X

There are a lot of good ones out there - I'm sure others will mention their favorites eventually.
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« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 06:46:53 PM »

This is an excellent thread. Very interesting.

My gut feeling on this one tells me that what DC's mean to you, will be completely dependent on what you believe them to be. I just don't believe there is going to be a one size fits all explaination.

This in my opinion is analogous to dream interpretation. I am a firm believer than someone can read a non lucid dream I've had and ask some good questions, but they are not well positioned to do the ultimate interpretation of the dream. They might be able to stimulate my thinking some. That's about it.

I have recently become so interested by this basic question (what are DC's and how to leverage them) that I will be doing a lot of personal research here.

In conclusion though, if anyone feels that there is a nice self contained must read work on the matter. Do share your opinions.
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 10:57:57 AM »

"How didst thou make division of Thyself?"—William Shakespeare, Twelfth Night

One of the things that fascinates me about dreaming in general is the apparent mental autonomy that dream characters have. Yes under scrutiny they sometimes spout nonsense, but nevertheless they do seem to operate quite independently of even the most lucid of dreamers.

DC's are part of you, part of your mind/ego but yet they can seemingly have quite distinct self-contained personalities that are sometimes quite complex.

Are DC's representations of parts of your subconscious/personality which diverged from your current ego at some point in your past and are now self-contained personalities within your mind? or are they are simply an elaborate illusion that your subconscious creates to give the dreamer an animate object to interact with to create a close representation of the outside world.

The latter would be the easy/obvious conclusion, but I'm not entirely convinced.

An interesting read along similar lines is: The Dream Character as Prototype for the Multiple Personality Disorder Alter by Deirdre Barrett, Ph.D., assistant professor of Psychology at Harvard Medical School.

Would be interested to hear peoples' thoughts. (forgive the pun!)

That Shakespeare quote is often used in psychoanalytic theory, particularly the idea "splitting" within the Object Relations school.

I guess it can be applied to DCs.  As MB says, though, DCs tend not to repeat themselves, so there must be many splits or many permutations of parts of different splits going into each DC.

I prefer to think of DCs as clusters of constructs.  If we think of a construct as a building block of any thought, idea, decision etc then we can make DCs from any combination of constructs in our minds.  In fact in my dreams, DCs are often not very stable and can change as the dream goes on.  Like I'm constructing them all the time.  The more common clusters of constructs become our archetypes.  For example I often dream of family, nice girls, powerful women, men that chase me, killing machines, formless DCs in the background, and people from school and uni long ago.  They may be different each time, but they all seem to represent the same sorts of things to me.

This is an excellent thread. Very interesting.

My gut feeling on this one tells me that what DC's mean to you, will be completely dependent on what you believe them to be. I just don't believe there is going to be a one size fits all explaination.

I'm slowly coming to that conclusion too.  However, I suspect the similarities between us outweigh the differences.
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2010, 05:21:57 PM »

This is similar to something I had been mulling over last week.  I realised that over the years I've created "mental models" of people I know/have known.  I then realised that in my internal dialogue, parts of these models have been rehashed and feel "outside" of my own thoughts and give me a different perspective on things (hope I'm not sounding too crazy!).  Even the "main me" is a lot of aspects of other people I have picked up from.  I then wondered if this is the beginnings of DID - not that I'm at risk for this but that in extreme versions, this is how it happens.

I can only talk of DCs in normal dreams (as in my few lucids I only briefly saw DCs) but this is what I feel is happening - the "mental models" built up over time being placed in "others".  My OH acts exactly how I'd expect him too (I obviously have a very detailed mental model due to the amount of time we spend together), other DCs act how I'd expect people to in the circumstances.

How this happens within the brain?  I have no idea.  I know that whether it is purely physcial, or something more, these "personalities" exist in the subconscious "independantly" and "evolve" without my conscious awareness.  Much like when you try to remember something and it pops up later, somewhere, something was acting without my knowledge to give up that info.  I hope all that makes sense?  One other thing I know for sure - nightmares stem from issues you try to keep buried but are effecting you.  I had zero dream recall until about 6 months back when I started trying to LD.  As I started recording and recalling dreams I realised that most were nightmares based on the same theme.  It wasn't until I identified what they symbolised and started to forgive and accept the situation, and realise that the situation was no longer in my life, only the mental model that I had built and came back in various DCs, did they start to let up.  I know the issue isn't totally resolved but it's getting there and seems to support what I'm trying to say...

Thank you for the links to more books - I've read ETWOLD and am eager to read more Grin
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