Author Topic: Summoning versus Transmutation  (Read 6691 times)

Offline The Cusp

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Summoning versus Transmutation
« on: March 11, 2010, 04:42:07 PM »
I think just about every lucid dreamer has had difficulties summoning objects or people while lucid.  I believe the problem is in the approach, trying to create something from nothing.  Far easier to transmute something already in the dream into what you want to summon.

So how do we transmute dream objects?  By taking advantage of archetypal associations.  Everything is an archetype, and archetypes are nothing more than a series of associations or links.  The trick is finding something in your dream that you can associate with what you want to manifest.  This can be an obvious, direct association, or a series of abstract links.  It doesn't have to be done with in one step, you can transmute something several times, each transmutation bringing you closer to your desired goal.

For example, in a recent lucid, I needed a female presence to balance something out, and I found myself standing next to myself holding a shotgun pointed at my double's feet. The path I decided to follow to manifest a woman was menstrual blood.  So I shot my double in the feet, and the blood began to flow.  But I conceptualized that blood as menstrual blood, and zoomed in on the bloody feet.  When I pulled my focus back, my double was now a woman. 

All summoning methods are just a variation of archetypal transmutation.  Like the door trick for summoning people or teleporting yourself to a desired destination.  Doors have to lead somewhere, that is the link, the association.  But archetypes have many associations, and you have to choose the one you want to use before hand or you will end up with a random outcome.

Same goes with reaching into your pockets to summon something, or reaching to your hip for a gun or a sword.  Pockets have a major association with carrying objects, that is their main purpose.

In order to properly transmute an archetype, you have to first make the association you want to use your main focus of attention.  Zoom in on it visually so that it eclipses everything else in the dream.  Then tweak your conceptualization of that element so that it is better suited to your purpose (Like how I changed bleeding feet to menstrual blood).  The pull back your focused attention to take in more of the dream scene and the changes should have already taken place.

It's not always obvious associations either.  When using this technique, you will often find yourself traveling down associative paths that are anything but obvious, connections you weren't even aware you made.  But the paths are there none the less.

A word of warning, once you get the hang of this, it will completely screw with the narrative of your dreams.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 11:18:03 PM by The Cusp »
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2010, 10:26:48 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:04:01 PM by pj »

Offline KylieSmiley

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2010, 09:30:11 AM »
I have never had any luck just conjuring something or someone right in front of me out of thin air, but like Moonbeam said, if I can expect to find them around the corner or down the street, that sometimes does work for me.  The idea of transforming something is interesting, & I never thought to try it before... maybe it would be worth a shot!

I wonder if you're able to think of more obscure connections/associations in dreams than you are able to in RL?  Simply because you are dreaming... it seems like it might be logical to think you'd be more creative/more willing to think totally outside the box in a dream.  At least, it's been that way in my experience.   :)
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Offline Vex

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2010, 09:19:22 AM »
Great idea. I've always had trouble summoning characters. Transmutation would seem to be an easier and more logical way to go about it. Plus it sounds much cooler.
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2010, 12:44:45 PM »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 2014, 07:04:01 PM by pj »

Offline The Cusp

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2010, 12:08:28 AM »
I have pretty good luck with imagining the person I want to be in a certain place, like a room or even in bed next to me or whatever, and then looking there and seeing them.  But I can imagine doing what you are describing too; it seems like that would work.

But in a manner of speaking, that is what I was talking about.  By designating a certain place for them to appear, you're basically creating a "pocket" or container for them.  I'm just saying you could fine tune it a little (or at least someone who's having trouble could) but using an area with some sort of association to your desired manifestation target.  By using an area that has some link to your target, maybe an object you can associate with them, or even writing their name on the wall of floor.

Oh, I just remembered a tip I heard once:  if you want somebody to come, start talking about that person to a DC.  Just start telling some story about them, saying anything you can think of, and it may make the person come to you.

I'd have to agree with that.  I'm always saying dreams reflect what you have your attention on, and the more focus you give something, the more related detail it creates.
Some people are like a Slinky - Not really much good for anything, but they do bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

Offline Caradon

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2010, 01:17:25 AM »
I've been thinking about doing some practicing with summoning soon. I'm going to keep this trick in mind, Cusp. Sounds like a fun experiment. I also want to try the talking about a person to bring them around trick. I don't think I've ever purposely summoned a particular person that I want to see.


Offline wild_dedication

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2011, 06:18:13 PM »
I've tried summoning Megan Fox... that's right. I <3 her. Anyway... whenever I have really focused on it I wake up. Maybe trying this will work better. I can only seem to have dreams of her when I am not lucid, and then for some reason never become lucid! =)
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Offline Duckymassacre

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2011, 03:04:22 PM »
Thank you, the Cusp.

I had my first successful attempt this morning and after drifting about a bit I decided to bring someone into the dream. Didn't even occur to me to look for them.

It destroyed the dream nicely. I'll (hopefully) consider a more alchemical approach next time...

Offline johnb

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2011, 04:42:25 PM »
I think just about every lucid dreamer has had difficulties summoning objects or people while lucid.  I believe the problem is in the approach, trying to create something from nothing.  Far easier to transmute something already in the dream into what you want to summon.

Nice idea. Don't think I've ever even tried summoning or transmuting anything, but it sounds like fun. I think Waggoner (http://www.lucidadvice.com/) recommends imagining that what you want is behind a door and then opening the door to see if it's there. But you might not always have a door, so that has limited usefulness. Also, he likes to "ask the dream" for things. Just command the dream space to give you the thing you're trying to summon. Though I think he mainly recommends this as a way of getting answers to questions, like "Which stock should I invest in to become rich?"
In the secret space of dreams
Where I dreaming lay amazed
When the secrets all are told
And the petals all unfold
When there was no dream of mine
You dreamed of me.
-- from Attics of My Life, by Robert Hunter

Offline MeltingCORE

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 03:36:19 PM »
Thanks for this idea Cusp! It might help me a lot better than what I usually do. When I want to summon a character I usually ask a DC where they are. Not such a good idea... The last time I asked the dream ver. of my bro where Tron was he led me to a toilet. (lol, something he'd do irl.) Either that or I just try to visualize them out of thin air. Annnd they usually appear as a poster or something instead.

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Offline Kar

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Re: Summoning versus Transmutation
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2011, 05:47:41 PM »
I very rarely transmute or summon  human DCs (though it's pretty easy to get antagonistic DCs to show up if I want conflict, but I'm not sure if that counts as summoning since I just manipulate an existing mechanic of my dreams), but I transmute animals occasionally and objects fairly frequently. I summon objects quite often and I teleport myself all the time. I've never really thought of tricking myself. It sounds a lot easier than the method I came up with. I transmute/summon/teleport/do most other things using a decision and confidence. I'll use elevators as an example because I made a lot of those last year (they're convenient) and using a "physical" example might make this more clear: I'll look at the place I want one to be and decide that there's an elevator there. I'm confident of my decision and so it becomes reality and I have an elevator going where I want it to (be that down or to another dream, to another area int he same dream, or to the next plot point).


A word of warning, once you get the hang of this, it will completely screw with the narrative of your dreams.

I tend to work with my subconscious instead of seeing it as a controlling or opposing force. My subconscious, to me, is my partner in storytelling. It allows and helps me to learn new abilities and expects me to use them in my dreams. My manipulating is a given and is incorporated into the dream. In some cases I even get little nudges or hints that I should use a certain ability or use an ability of my choice to do a specific task necessary for the plot. I challenge it as well by sometimes pointing out inconsistencies that it then needs to try to come up with a reasonable explanation for or by asking questions about DCs, the plot, the setting, etc in order to make it add more detail. We work as a team to improve the story and make it more interesting and challenging for both of us....or all of me, I guess.