Author Topic: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper  (Read 5184 times)

Offline DrTechnical

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Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« on: December 09, 2013, 07:18:13 PM »
Hi all:

Been meaning to post this for quite some time. Here is the paper that Maria Isabel Pita and I presented at the 2013 IASD Psiber Dreaming Conference ...

http://lucidlivingluciddreaming.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/pdc2013-krollpita1.pdf

This is a readers digest version of our work together that went into our book Dream Partners. The intent was simple, to meet up in mind-space and have a mutual lucid dream where we experienced the same exact thing. While we fell a bit short of that lofty goal, we did indeed have many noteworthy experiences. Frankly, the last pair of dreams in this paper will stick with me forever. We did in fact reach each other and experienced a set events which were metaphorically paired. We then lost our respective lucid dreams and woke at precisely the same time (note - we live about 700 miles apart). A very powerful experience indeed, and taken together, a solid set of experiential data pointing toward the phenomenon of non local awareness. We hope you find these results and experiments interesting.


For a deeper dive into the work:

http://www.amazon.com/Dream-Partners-Ongoing-Experiment-Sharing-ebook/dp/B00FSFK7LE/ref=sr_1_2?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1386630753&sr=1-2
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 02:29:09 PM by DrTechnical »
"In a fearful stampede to save themselves from the terrifying menace of an original idea, the herd can become a mindless destroyer of the light." - Thomas Campbell

"I just had to get nice last night. My Mind is so free, you wouldn't believe ... you wouldn't believe" - Dave Wyndorf

"I don't understand. How can less be more? That's impossible. More is more." - Yngwie Malmsteen

Offline bluebird

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 05:06:00 AM »
I've been interested in seeing where this work would take you two ever since you first mentioned it to me. I'm really pleased to hear you have had some results, even if they did not meet your target 100% (but nothing ever does in the dream world). I will probably get the book for my kindle and read it over Christmas, as I'm highly interested to see how shared dreaming will evolve over the many years to come.

Your work seems pretty revolutionary in the field of LD DrTech, the more we can document phenomenal experiences the more we can (hopefully) understand them and learn more about human consciousness. Don't stop what you're doing :)

p.s. What's next? Or more of the same?
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Offline Eithman

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 04:34:52 PM »
MIND =  :explode:

Wow! The results are amazing and definitely beyond coincidence. Thank you for taking the time to document and present this. I look forward to doing my own parallel research in the future on this exact topic. Good luck in future dreams and thanks again for the fascinating results!
~Carpe Dream~

Offline DrTechnical

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2013, 01:49:43 PM »
Thanks Eithman. One reason Maria and I were motivated to share our experiences is to get people thinking about what is indeed possible with effort and belief. I'm glad to hear that you find this motivating. That's the whole point!

The more we share these types of experiences, the more people will slowly open their eyes to our larger reality.
"In a fearful stampede to save themselves from the terrifying menace of an original idea, the herd can become a mindless destroyer of the light." - Thomas Campbell

"I just had to get nice last night. My Mind is so free, you wouldn't believe ... you wouldn't believe" - Dave Wyndorf

"I don't understand. How can less be more? That's impossible. More is more." - Yngwie Malmsteen

Offline Eithman

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 02:02:20 PM »
I completely agree. I am baffled by how little attention this got on MM. I thought people would be elated to discover that some actual progress was made.

Have you ever heard of the book "The Science Behind The Secret" ? It discusses quantum physics and possible parapsychology connections between humans. It has nothing to do with dreaming, but might give some possible insight into how it is possible for our minds to connect through quantum physics.  It might be of interest if you are still studying dream sharing and the science behind it.
~Carpe Dream~

Offline greg lousy

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2013, 05:59:31 AM »
Quote
I am baffled by how little attention this got on MM

    ... I'm a little surprised as well... I envisioned a number of different kinds of responses but never would have guessed there would be so few. I was a little worried that some debate would emerge only to become stifled in the shallow dualism of "belief" and "skepticism", but now I feel that'd be better than nothing.

I think that the diligence and work involved here deserves a honest feedback from the community... so here's mine anyway, or at least some of it.


   I read the paper and had a confusing mish mash of varied reactions with the cumulative result of enlarging various question marks. I was kinda letting it all marinate into some kind of cohesion while planning to reply but I don't know if that's gonna happen so here I am, showing up all messy.
 I'm also aware that I'd have a whole different and much more profound mish mash going on if this was something I experienced rather than read about.

The last bit about love made me think... I forget... do we have any lucid dreaming couples here?  Feist and Dryalanthia? Weren't they kind of a thing?   have any of our married people spread the interest to their spouses?  Do any of our lucid dreaming parents have any lucid dreaming kids?  Lucid Dreaming siblings? Didn't Rebel Seven's sister make a little brief appearance? Wait, was it a twin sister?
   It'd be interesting to see what would happen.

(or is there a tendency to not share this practice with those closest to us?)

  

 
........ and I cannot find my way back to the sea, but the saltiest sea knows its own way to me    -   Joanna Newsome

Offline bluebird

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2013, 09:32:37 AM »
Despite my best efforts, none of my family take any interest in Lucid Dreaming. Maybe we should revive that old Speed Dating thread and see if we can make a new MM couple :)
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Offline Eithman

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2013, 09:56:57 AM »
Hahaha there used to be a speed dating thread ? XD

My fiencee  (we have been together for over three years now and live together) has taken a lot of interest, as she has had extremely vivid dreams since she was a kid. My mother has also taken an interest but she has as much luck with dreaming as I do, so it will take her a lot longer to get caught up. Regardless, I think both of them will stay with it, especially when I start having some success. In the future, I will set up times for all of us to try and meet. I will keep you guys posted with progress of this in my DJ.

Have you guys taken a look at Dr.Technicals interview? He discusses some other extremely interesting topics about dream space and reality bleeding information to each other. If I read correctly, and please correct me if I am wrong, he did an experiment where he bought some technology used to detect ghosts ( EMF meter, etc ) that works on electromagnetic. Then when having an OBE, he went around the devices. After awakening he actually had some results from the meters. This interested me very much as it would be a lot easier to recreate and prove than dream sharing. There was another experiment with cards that he quantified the odds on which was also interesting. ( Dr.Technical, I am sorry for butchering the description of your experiments, my lack of vocabulary made it very hard to understand the interview. I literally made 55 note cards with vocab words on them that I got from your interview to study before re-reading it) Thoughts?
~Carpe Dream~

Offline DrTechnical

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2013, 01:47:28 PM »
These experiences should simply be "in the eye of the beholder" I think. Personally, I think they are some pretty strong examples. Ah ... but how to prove it? And can PSI be proven? I'll touch on that in a moment.

Actually, this is a pretty small sampling of our results. One of my favorite examples was omitted because we had no room for it. You can find the dream in my DJ if you search on "focus 27". In short, I had a dream which became lucid. I became rather convinced that I had died and was in Focus 27 (a term coined by Robert Monroe). I walked over to a roller coaster and realized that this was how I had died. I then experienced a scene change and was watching my mother view a picture of me, dead, with my head bashed in.

That day, I had literally warned Maria to please be safe, as I felt this was a death premonition and not my own. Later that day, she got a call from her mom that her mom's life long friend had passed, a man who at one point was romantically involved with Maria's mom. The kicker here ... is that years prior, this man was attacked in his office and hit over the head numerous times with a crow bar and left for dead - literally with a bashed in head.

Now, this is another interesting example if I might point out, that love in its various forms facilitates PSI information transfer, in this case from Maria's mom, to Maria to me.

So, how do you assign a probability to this event and PSI read? Well obviously you can't. But I claim it's close to zero.

To Eithman's point, there are certainly ways to approach this all differently. So moving away from dream sharing, can we prove PSI somehow else? If you search on my interview with Robert Wagner (google:  kroll + lucid dreaming experience) I briefly describe an experiment that was subsequent to the electomagnometer one. I think I can paste a link to the pic here. But this is a nice example of modifying a true physical random number generator in a way that is HIGHLY statistically unlikely? I did this many times over. This is not an isolated example:



In short, the highlighted portion is an example of entropy reduction of a true stochastic process.

But - there in lies the problem. What the hell did DrT just explain? Well the readers digest summary I guess is that consciousness is fundamental, reality is slaved to consciousness and as such, we can modify quantum processes via interesting back door methods.

There ... now there is lots to argue about on this thread.

(for the record,  my total PSI experiments that I can quantify have an odds against chance of about 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 : 1, but I am willing to admit that this does NOT prove PSI)  :)
"In a fearful stampede to save themselves from the terrifying menace of an original idea, the herd can become a mindless destroyer of the light." - Thomas Campbell

"I just had to get nice last night. My Mind is so free, you wouldn't believe ... you wouldn't believe" - Dave Wyndorf

"I don't understand. How can less be more? That's impossible. More is more." - Yngwie Malmsteen

Offline Shellidfl

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Re: Dream Sharing - Kroll/Pita IASD Paper
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2013, 09:04:23 PM »
I just want to add that these experiences were discussed at some length during the PSIberdreaming conference.  There were a lot of thought-provoking conversations there, certainly!

I was also privy to the information before the conference, and consider myself to be very fortunate for that, as were also some others as well.

This book (which I STILL have to finish, even though I do know the outcome) is a great read and has led to experiments elsewhere, where I will also be involved in, but certainly not to the depth that DrT and MariaIP were.

Kudos to them, and look forward to more information from them and others whom they have inspired!