Author Topic: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream  (Read 32211 times)

Offline pj

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CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« on: September 22, 2009, 09:41:43 PM »
Moonbeam and I have been playing with something I stumbled on accidentally - the idea of deliberately going into caffeine withdrawal, then taking some caffeine and going right to sleep.

The idea came from a stress test I took last week.  I had to go without caffeine, which brought on a caffeine withdrawal headache.  The stress test ran me to nausea.  I then came home, had a cup of coffee, and felt so awful (with an oncoming migraine) that I lay down for a nap.  I ended up easily WILDing for the first time in a while.

Moonbeam duplicated the effort inadvertently, when she woke up with a caffeine headache and took Excedrin, which has caffeine in it.  She got lucid right after.

We don't know if this is just the age-old caffeine (or any other stimulant) being used to help induce lucidity or if the caffeine withdrawal has something to do with it.  We're going to keep playing with it.

If anybody else has a notion to give it a go, please let us know the results!
What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

--pj

Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2009, 11:04:23 PM »
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Offline Alex Lou

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2009, 07:58:43 AM »
My understanding of how caffeine and caffeine withdrawal works on the CNS is limited.  But I can tell you that caffeine changes the amount of blood flowing to the brain.  When you are physically dependent on caffeine and stop taking it, you end up with more blood going to your brain, thus, headache.  Withdrawal also produces changes in quantitative EEG. 

But taking more caffeine should return the addicted to normal since the CNS has adapted to the caffeine. :hrm:  I have no idea how long you'd have to go without caffeine before the number of adenosine receptors would start to decrease in number back toward normal levels.  But if you got to that point, you might experience caffeine again like a non-addicted person.

Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2009, 08:07:40 AM »
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Offline Alex Lou

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2009, 02:14:53 AM »
That's the strange thing about caffeine; besides the almost complete lack of tolerance
Oh, there is tolerance.  From what I've read, a person who has caffeine regularly will have the same wakefulness/alertness while on caffeine as someone who doesn't consume caffeine.  Because:  caffeine blocks adenosine receptors.  So in the presence of caffeine our bodies construct more adenosine receptors so that adenosine will still have an effect.  We end up with enough receptors to accommodate the amount of caffeine we consume and the normal function of adenosine.

Adenosine is believed to make us feel sleepy as the day goes on, btw.  So you can see why blocking the action of adenosine would give you the familiar caffeine alertness.  However, in those of us with caffeine tolerance, the adenosine still functions even when we drink coffee.  But without caffeine, we have more free receptors for adenosine than someone who doesn't drink coffee.  Effectively we should be more drowsy than a non-caffeine user at those times because of increased adenosine action.

Way too much info, I know.  :sad1: Sorry.  The only reason I know this is because I had to argue with my Pharmacology instructor who insisted that there is no physical withdrawal from caffeine.

Offline pj

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2009, 07:13:31 AM »
Oh - there's physical withdrawal, all right!

Never too much info.  Nobody's forcing anybody to read it.  More info is better!  I guarantee Moonbeam's been researching it already too.

The big question is whether this mechanism can be/is being leveraged to influence our dreaming.
What truly matters is not built of right and wrong; but of grace, and of love.

--pj

Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 07:14:00 AM »
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2009, 09:16:48 AM »
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Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 08:07:16 PM »
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Offline Alex Lou

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2009, 05:28:40 AM »
I'm of the opposite opinion. :)  I think that the withdrawal doesn't matter.  What does matter is that you go to sleep with caffeine in your system, without being completely tolerant to it.  But the headache does set up a natural WBTB, during which time you can take the caffeine.  Of course, I don't really know .  .  .

Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2009, 10:01:37 AM »
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Offline Alex Lou

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2009, 02:08:07 AM »
I don't know what would happen to a person who doesn't drink coffee--somebody should try it. 
I did try it.  Back before I used to drink coffee/tea/energy drinks regularly:  I'd have really intense lucids any time I'd go to sleep after drinking caffeine.  It was really, really noticeable; no mistaking it.

I would like to try the withdrawal thing myself, but I'm afraid that my sleep schedule is so screwed up right now that I wouldn't be able to tell anything.  To many different factors at play.

Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2009, 10:35:48 AM »
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Offline Hazel

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2009, 02:51:26 PM »
Hm, but how long would it take to actually get addicted to caffeine in the first place? I'd love to experiment with this, and right now I rarely drink anything with caffeine in it so there's no chance that I'm addicted.
Do you know the terror of he who falls asleep? To the very toes he is terrified, Because the ground gives the way under him, And the dream begins... - Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline Sunshine

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Re: CAWILD - Caffeine Addiction Withdrawal Induced Lucid Dream
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2009, 03:10:43 PM »
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