Topic 4: Leadership

[AspirationRealized]

I was discussing leadership, here in the leadership topic.

The scope of what you're talking about is very very limited. According to your post, this discussion and countless others are inherently pointless. I suppose we're wasting our time here then, with the guild hall and the strategy forum and anything that contributes to the community outside of literally discussing dreams. Projects are unnecessary as well, and why track the activity levels at all?

While dream journals and discussions are the bread and butter of MM, there is a whole lot of forum outside of those topics and a whole lot of people who find other things necessary. The more you cut these things away, the less influence people have on bettering the forum and perhaps more importantly, the less this feels like a community.

So are we to conclude that your contribution to this discussion is that this discussion is meaningless? Why are we in this thread? Why do we have this board?

[IndigoGhost]

I suppose we're wasting our time here then.

What is a man? What is a waste? Why are you here in the first place? Let them out of their cage for long enough and they will build whats natural to them, then the grasp of power is pointless and cant integrate anymore. 

[Sunshine]

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[IndigoGhost]

think it's more a lack of direct or indirect reward (dream or fun-related reward.)

That is exactly what i was trying to do when i suggested the badge system, not really sure whatever happened to that xD

[AspirationRealized]

I don't think what you said is meaningless, its how you feel about things. But my interpretation of what you said dismisses this thread's topic as meaningless, along with quite a few other things that I see as valuable to MM. While threads and boards and discussions like these aren't absolutely necessary for the forum to function, I believe they have a great impact on growth and development, which is at least part of the reason we're having this thread in the first place.

Its not a pseudo-problem we're addressing here and I'm not the first to bring it up. I was giving my theory as to why many forums experience leadership issues and comparing it to what I've experienced here. The responses so far don't seem to qualify the idea I posted, and I admitted some uncertainty of the connection in my post. But I saw enough similarities to at least assume it was worth presenting to you guys.

The idea that dreaming is an individual experience and so the benefits can't really be shared (of course depending on what you believe here but it's at least not proven) and so this leaves less incentive (at least directly related to dreaming ) to work on projects is very valid and relevant here. The benefits to helping the community have never been tangible and is more or less what you'd like to see or how you'd like to help. That's pretty key and a good point MB made.

[Sunshine]

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[AspirationRealized]

That's valid when your dreaming is your only concern. My perspective is different. Very little I've done here has influenced my dreaming. I like to think I have helped others with their dreaming, and helped improve the community, or contirbute to whatever indiscernible quality that makes MM MM. This has always justified my time here to myself.

But yes, you have to determine what it is you're getting for your efforts and if its "enough".

[Cambodia]

How did this thread go from being about leadership to debating the relevance of subjects/threads/discussions on the forum that aren't directly involved with dreaming?  We stayed related to the leadership thing for a little while, but it's prevalence dwindled after a few posts from MB and AspiR debating about meaning(I hate to name names, but let's face facts).

I'm certainly not going to try to end this argument/debate, but I will express my opinion.

Moonbeam:
The forum is many things to many people, and some find that they enjoy doing things on the forum not related to dreaming.  Such as the games we play.  I, for one, find them to be enjoyable, a distraction from frustration I feel about my inability to have LD's regularly. 

As far as meaninglessness goes: Does anything we do truly have meaning?  We're a dreaming forum.  Meaninglessness is implied simply by saying "dream".  Think about it for a second.  What benefit do you actually gain from LD'ing?  I don't see any.

I think I've gone off-topic.  My point is that something doesn't have to benefit anyone, or have meaning to be worth doing.  Board games, Card games, reading, watching T.V., making Music, anything recreational. None of it is meaningful, but doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

AspiR:
If MB sees non-dream related things on the forum as meaningless, you can't really argue with it.  It is a dreaming forum, as I stated before.  It's her opinion, mostly, so you can't say she's right or wrong.  So she sees meaninglessness in certain things.  Sorry to be blunt, but big deal.  Ignore it, move on.  It's what I did when I saw her rants on religion.  It serves no one to argue opinions, which is all I'm seeing you two do.  It ends badly, with both sides begrudged toward the other and nothing solved.  In the end, no one wins an argument like that.


I know, compared to how I started this post, what I said toward MB and AspiR sounds contrary at best, at worst it's hypocritical.  I'd like it if we could stop the nonsense and get back to the topic at hand.

And MB, if it sounds like I only have negative things to say to you, I apologize. 

I know no one asked for my opinion but there it is.


As far as Leadership goes: While I love MM and appreciate how it's helped me over several months, I have noticed a lack of direction(if that's the right way to put it).  Do we need a leader?  If it helps us get where we need to go, then yes.  If we decided to try it out, do it on a trial basis.  If it doesn't work out, that's cool, just scrap the idea, and try something different.

New member retention is indeed an issue, as the only people who post seem to be the regulars.  Will leadership help us with that?  I don't see how.  I would've figured a collective group could come up with something to help with that.  Perhaps have a group that deals with issues of New Members?  Seems logical to me.

Unfinished projects might be helped by leadership.  Leaders could give project leaders the push they needed to make sure they need to make sure the projects follow through.  Perhaps friendly reminders?  I don't know, I'm no expert.

I say try the Leader thing, give it a shot.  If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work.  If it does, keep it.  One thing that must be present is a way to get rid of a poor/ineffective leader though.

[Maria92]

Just from observation, but on other LD sites, member retention is also a problem. The larger ones don't notice it as much, since they're freaking huge and there's a constant supply of newbies, but 90% drop out in a month or two. Only the very dedicated stick around. I think lucid dreaming in general is just that sort of a topic that sparks huge initial interest that quickly fades out in most of the general population once actual work becomes involved. Is it any wonder that so many of our "senior denizens" are also skilled dreamers? They'd almost have to be. My own interest died out months ago. I'm here mostly because it's so nice to talk to all the wonderful friends I've made. I like to hear about their days and how they're doing and if all is going well (not just in relation to dreams, either). It's nice having a place to come together and just talk about anything and everything.

As for my own role in leadership, I spearheaded the Minecraft project. That was back when I hosted the entire kit and kaboodle on my own computer and I knew how to work it. There are some areas of technology where I'm still horribly inept: linux, server and networking stuff, and media compression/formats, primarily. It's an entirely different sort of system that baffles me. I've had some bits explained to me, but I still don't get it. Maybe perhaps one day I'll understand, but I can't work Ubuntu on my own machine, yet alone remotely. :(

[IndigoGhost]

Just from observation, but on other LD sites, member retention is also a problem

Hence why badges would work so well, people come they learn and they leave because there is no direction and they get bored. Give them something fun they can do and remember for a long time that will keep them coming back. The only way badges can work is if the community creates fun dream challenges to motivate and intrigue a person. Its the same way achievements work on Xbox live or how leveling works on video games. Once they pick up 10 badges they feel attached and want more and that's what creates fun.

Writeing this with electrodes attached to my body, Woohoo! 

[Sunshine]

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[Cambodia]

I haven't felt like this place is "generic, with a little dreaming on the side", for a moment.  We've got quite a few off-topic things, sure, but every forum does (yes, even the successful ones).  It's pretty evident that dreaming is the star of this show, while off-topic is still busy begging the director to give him a walk-on part.

Do you feel that way sometimes, MB?

[IndigoGhost]

I haven't felt like this place is "generic, with a little dreaming on the side", for a moment.

Being fair to MB, I have been on MM on and off all day diddleing about in my IndigoGhost way and have not noticed a single dreaming thread. It may just be that the non_relation threads outnumber the dreaming ones ^_^;. 

[pj]

http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php?topic=4777.msg122085#msg122085
http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php?topic=4783.msg122152#msg122152
http://mortalmist.com/forum/index.php?topic=4776.msg122084#msg122084

Those are new dream related threads begun today.

Many posts have been made to existing dream related threads too - journals, ongoing discussions, the Dream Study Groups and more.

Just FWIW.

[Sunshine]

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